Browning sight quality?

Discussion of BPCR rifles and shooting accessories, including range equipment.

Browning sight quality?

Postby MJL1961 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:44 pm

Continue to consider a Browning BPCR in .40-65 It comes equiped with factory Browning soule vernier rear sight & globe front sight. Does anyone have an opinion on the quality of the Browning sights... should I expect to replace these sights with a set of Baldwins or MVAs? or are the Browning sights 'match-grade' already?
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Postby TexasMac » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:09 pm

I'm a Browning guy so understand that I may be unintentionally biased. And, although I have shot my Browning's a good bit, I have not tried any other brand of sights as a comparison. With that said, Browning rear soule sights (actually made by AMT/AET for Browning) has had some problems and some perceived problems which, in some instances, have been blown way out of proportion. The sights are capable of match grade accuracy. Some of the following comments are from my book on the Browning BPCRs.

Some of the rear sights were found to have, what some shooters believe to be, excessive amount of play or slack in the windage-base/ladder assembly in the fore and aft (front and back) direction. The movement is greater on some due to slight lot-to-lot machining variances in the windage base assembly that supports the sight staff (ladder assembly). The total amount of play is typically no more than 1/8” at the top of the staff. Browning determined the movement was not detrimental to the functioning and accuracy of the sight as have I. Using a simple trigonometric calculation confirms Browning’s determination. The maximum vertical error will not exceed plus or minus 0.0005” in the peephole position, which is much better, actually 20 times better than the maximum accuracy capabilities of the vernier scale. The calculation assumes the peephole is at full height, the worse case condition.

Two additional problems reported are ladder detent reliability, and excessive lateral (left and right) movement in the rear sight ladder/staff. In all cases I’m aware the root cause of lateral movement was traced to a missing, broken, or improperly installed spring between the base of the sight ladder and the sight windage barrel. The detent problem has been fixed using various methods.

So allow me to put all this in perspective. There were around 4200 Browning BPCRs manufactured. From what I can tell, only a small percentage had problems with the rear soule sight. Problems with the front sights are basically nonexistent. Based on all the feedback I’ve received there are several suppliers (MVA, Baldwin, Hoke, Kelly, Shaver, Kermitool, to name a few) that make high-quality sights which are, construction wise a notch above the Browning’s, but they can be quite expensive and are not capable of higher accuracy. I’ve never had a problem with any of my Browning sights and hear the same from many Browning owners. If you do get the Browning I suggest you invest in a Hadley-style selectable eyecup.

Wayne
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Click on http://www.texas-mac.com/index.html to my home page containing information on my Browning/Winchester BPCR book, associated articles & Browning/Winchester BPCR firearm sales.
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Postby John Boy » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:14 pm

should I expect to replace these sights with a set of Baldwins or MVAs? or are the Browning sights 'match-grade' already?

MJL ...Why replace the Browning Soule when you have not even shot the rifle? And who is to say that the Browning vernier is not 'match grade'!

Put a $400 vernier on a rifle in the hands of an average shooter - it's still an average vernier. Put a $200 vernier on a rifle in the hands of a Master ranked match shooter and you will have a 'match grade' vernier.

Stop fretting: buy the rifle - be sure to make some excellent reloads - go to the range on a calm cool day so you don't have to wrestle with mirage and wind - shoot it at 200yds and if you get one holers - the sight and your eyes are match grade

Here's some targets shot with a Pedersoli Soule vernier that many folks say the vernier is ##@$$^%, well you know what I was going to say :?
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13911

And here's another 45-75 target (100yds) from a '76 Chaparral using a Pedersoli Mid Range vernier:
Image

And here's a 45-70 target (100yds) from a Pedersoli Quigley with a Pedersoli Creedmoor LR vernier with 14 bullets in the ragged 'one hole' cut:
Image

And here is a 1000yd target from a 45-70 Uberti HiWall using a Pedersoli LR Creedmoor vernier. The lead splashes in bulls eye measures 10" and the 10 ring is 20"
Image

PS: And I am not NRA ranked!
Regards
John
SJPSSS - Founder & Only Chapter Member
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Postby Ranch 13 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:32 pm

Those Browning sights are as good as any. You would be well advised to buy one of the "hadley" eye cups for the rearsight, but other than that those sights should take you as far as your load building/shooting skills can take you.
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Postby Arnie » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:59 pm

I have a Browning 40/65 and the rear sight is fine except it has right hand threads and left hand threads,not sure which is elevation and which is windage since i havent shot it in a while ,gets confusing though when your used to other sights .Arnie
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Re: Browning sight quality?

Postby Standing Bear » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:56 pm

TexasMac
Could you share some of the Detent Fixes for the Browning? I have two Brownings, one is very tight and the other has detent problems, I have to play with it each shot to make sure it is in a consistent position.
Thanks,
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Re: Browning sight quality?

Postby TexasMac » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:19 pm

I have not had a problem with the rear soule sight detent on my rifles, but following is what others have done and reported to me:

Adding spacers under the spring, reshaping the spring to form a sharper bump, and/or deepening or reshaping the detent groove in the bottom of the windage barrel. One person added a rubber spacer under the spring, which worked quite well for him. Another used shim stock cut to fit under the original spring. Note that the windage base spring is very hard and brittle. Attempting to bend it further will likely result in a broken spring.

Wayne
NRA Life (President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF Member
Click on http://www.texas-mac.com/index.html to my home page containing information on my Browning/Winchester BPCR book, associated articles & Browning/Winchester BPCR firearm sales.
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