Newbie intro and plea for help

Items of primary interest to the new BPCR shooter. Loading, BP SAFETY, sources of materials, rifles, etc.
YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:16 pm

about .6" as far as I can tell... I measured it three times.

so that pretty much seals it. My barrel has the old Shiloh Freebore.

So what are my options? Is there a cast bullet in the known world that I can buy that will theoreticall shoot out of this gun with hunting accuracy? All I am asking is no worse than 4 inches at a 100 yards off bench. If I can acheive that good, then I will be satisfied with this barrel until I can save my pennys and have it rebarreled.

K
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YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:42 pm

How bout this one?

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 4&CAT=4528 or this one http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 5&CAT=4528 --paper patch it to .458"?? I''ll load it pushed out to kiss the rifling, with a .06 fiber wad under the bullet, a .125" grease cookie and then a thin wax paper disc over 1.5F swiss compressed .125-.25". Brass annealed and just enough tension to keep the bullet secure in the field.
Is this worth a try???

Anyone have a suggestion for a GG bullet that might work?

Ken
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DRCook
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by DRCook » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:02 pm

you could contact John Taylor of Taylor Machine http://www.johntaylormachine.com/

and ask him how much to put a sleeve in the barrel. I know of another person who had an Italian Sharps with a bad chamber and oversize rifling and it was less expensive to sleeve the barrel than to completely rebarrel.
drcook = david r, not dr. but thanks for the compliment :)

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montana_charlie
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by montana_charlie » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:42 pm

YosemiteSam wroteCOLONHow bout this one?

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 4&CAT=4528 or this one http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 5&CAT=4528 --paper patch it to .458"?? I''ll load it pushed out to kiss the rifling, with a .06 fiber wad under the bullet, a .125" grease cookie and then a thin wax paper disc over 1.5F swiss compressed .125-.25". Brass annealed and just enough tension to keep the bullet secure in the field.
Is this worth a try???

Anyone have a suggestion for a GG bullet that might work?

Ken
Both of those at Buffalo Arms are marked temporarily out of stock, but I think the 500 grainer would work best (of the two) in your situation.
A patched-to-groove bullet is what those chambers were cut for. It seemed like the logical way to get modern ammunition to look like the Old Dead Guys ammunition.

So, you can patch to groove (or patch to freebore diameter) and set the bullet way out ... so most of it lays in the freebore.

You could do the same thing with a grease grooved bullet, but almost all of your lube would be exposed to 'contaminants'.
It should shoot, though ...

CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Any GG bullet suggestions? are there any off the shelf bullet that does not have the reduced dia. first driving band? I can keep the cartridges in a leather belt box to keep them clean.

I am going to give those 500 gr pp bullets a try if I can get some from Buff Arms.

question: if the freebore is as much as .460, can I go as big as .460?

Ken
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:01 pm

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DRCook
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by DRCook » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:33 pm

Possibly this one

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 0&CAT=4135

the issue is the driving body/band length. you need to get as much as you can into that freebore area. a lot of these GG bullets have a bore riding section that is 450'ish in diameter as you have measured some. If you found a GG bullet that was 458/459 all the way out it would fit into that freebore area better.

that is what is behind the thought of patching to groove diameter for that chamber
drcook = david r, not dr. but thanks for the compliment :)

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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:54 pm

ok, I will try this one and the pp one if I can get them, or something like it.

thanks for the help, and I am sure this is not the end of my newbie questions.

K
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by gunlaker » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:18 pm

If I were you I'd call Paul Jones or Steve Brooks and ask them if they have a suitable mould to fit the early Shiloh chamber. I'm sure they've got something that'll help you. And I'd bet that the extra $50 for the custom mould over an off the shelf BACO mould would save at least that in lead/powder/time/frustration. I've played the "guess which mould will fit my chamber" game more than once and it's expensive :mrgreen:

Chris.

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montana_charlie
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by montana_charlie » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:34 am

YosemiteSam wroteCOLONAny GG bullet suggestions? are there any off the shelf bullet that does not have the reduced dia. first driving band? I can keep the cartridges in a leather belt box to keep them clean.

I am going to give those 500 gr pp bullets a try if I can get some from Buff Arms.

question: if the freebore is as much as .460, can I go as big as .460?

Ken
If the freebore is .460" it would be best if you DO have a bullet that fat.

On the subject of grease groove bullets, you asked for one that has .460" bands in all locations.
I give you the Pedersoli/Gunn/Trenk (PGT) bullet.

Image

Victory Molds no longer exists, but Paul Jones sells that mould as his 'Pedersoli Chamber'.

It's a good bullet design, with a BC just slightly better than the Postell and Creedmoor.
The 'shank' part with all of the driving bands and grease grooves is .750" long (on the bullet in my hand).
That fills your .600" freebore and leaves .150" to sit in the case mouth.
That is a configuration very similar to how the patched-to-bore bunch load their's.

CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

DRCook
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by DRCook » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:42 am

Everybody is offering very useful information, myself included showing you that bullet to try, but here is the real problem.

You can buy a Paul Jones mould, 210.00 shipped. You can buy a Steve Brooks mould, 180.00 shipped, you can buy lots of bullets and try this one and try that one....

and then what happens if it still doesn't shoot ? You are stuck with a mould that not many people want, as you walk down the path that so many have done before you and ended up in the same place,

ie: either rebarreling or having a liner put in and a new chamber cut.

200.00 is about 1/3'ish of the price to get a new barrel put on, depending on whether your forearm can be reused or not. Putting a liner in the barrel is a lot more economical and the forearm can be reused, might not have to reblue, liners are pretty high in quality.

so you might get lucky and get onto a combination that works, or you might just be chasing a will of the wisp and pouring money down the pipe and getting frustrated and maybe just give up on it altogether.

these rifles do provide a satisfaction that is well worth it (in my opinion) if you just go ahead and get it fixed to start with

but that is my opinion and it and somewhere between 1.29 and 1.79 (depending on the franchise owner) will get you a large coffee at McDonalds, or 1.79 and an AARP card will get you a large coffee and a free donut at Dunkin Donuts.............
drcook = david r, not dr. but thanks for the compliment :)

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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:30 pm

thanks all-- Yeah the liner looks to be a pretty good deal--

Ken
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YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:05 pm

You guys are really a wealth of knowledge and this newbie sure appreciates it.

Ken
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YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:41 pm

How are liners as far as quality/accuracy? How do they stack up?

K
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DRCook
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by DRCook » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:01 pm

There are some liners of very high quality. Call and talk to John Taylor. I put the link up above. He has an impeccable reputation.
drcook = david r, not dr. but thanks for the compliment :)

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