Newbie intro and plea for help

Items of primary interest to the new BPCR shooter. Loading, BP SAFETY, sources of materials, rifles, etc.
YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:57 pm

ok, thanks? Hey Brent never underestimate the lack of ability in anyone... especially me. :D

I have always been a better shotgun shooter than a rifle shooter. It might be due to all the chemical fumes we graphic designers used to work over in the old days--- ah the days of Bestine rubber cement thinner!

the big bullet measured just after the first band and before the nose is .450

the small bullet if i am reading this right just after the first band is .435. It tapers faster but I think that is about it.
I HATE RABBITS

User avatar
montana_charlie
PostsCOLON 1413
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:35 pm
LocationCOLON West of Great Falls, Montana

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by montana_charlie » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:51 pm

I wonder how hard those bullets are. If they are undersize to start, and exceptionally hard, that could be cause for some poor accuracy ... not to mention any lead that they leave in the bore.

Do you think you could find a piece of 'soft' lead, Sam? Soft like those stick-on wheelweights would be good if you can melt six or ten into a chunk roughly as large as one of your bullets.

CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1578
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ranch 13 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:11 pm

That sounds more like something that'ld be used in a 44 cal. rifle, much to small for a 45, unless you wrap them up in a paper patch.

YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:07 am

I have plenty of good soft lead. (I am a traditional muzzleloader)

However, I'll get some different bullets to try. I do not want to buy a mold just yet. I am intrigued by paper patched bullets. History is my thing and I'd kind of like to work up a historically inspired load... once I get a chamber casting I can narrow the options down and make some educated choices (with all y'all's help).

K
I HATE RABBITS

gunlaker
PostsCOLON 396
JoinedCOLON Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:46 pm
LocationCOLON British Columbia

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by gunlaker » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:19 am

I think the best investment right now would be an ingot of cerrosafe for a chamber cast. Buffalo Arms carries them and they are good forever. You could always try the soft lead impact casting technique that some use. I've never done that, but a cerrosafe chamber cast is easy to do.
I have an original 1885 that was rebored/rechambered from .38-55 to .45-70. The chamber has a very long freebore ( and the chambering job was done poorly ), but you would never know it if you tried to seat a .459" bullet as the freebore is at .457". Seating a bullet that is sized to the freebore diameter quickly shows that it needs to sit way out.

By doing a chamber cast you can be confident that you ave accurate measurements. Or you can play with different bullets for a long time and still never come to the correct conclusion. I think I paid $20 for my cerrosafe and it paid for itself the first time I tried it on a rifle that just didn't seem to shoot well.

Good luck!

Chris.

YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:30 pm

How much Cerrosafe is needed for a Sharps chamber cast? half pound? or pound?

thanks Ken
I HATE RABBITS

crazy
PostsCOLON 27
JoinedCOLON Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:56 am

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by crazy » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:09 am

You can go with roto metals chamber casting alloy it is cheaper than creosafe. $14 for 1 pound of theirs.
http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/cha ... _pound.htm
Crazy_Dan

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1578
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ranch 13 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:43 am

Half pound will do your chamber and then some. It don't take much of the stuff. Just be sure and follow the instructions, making chamber cast isn't that hard of a thing to do.

YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:48 pm

I did some measuring tonight, my previous measurements were a bit off I think---sorry guys, I am a blockhead. So this is what I got this time when I was more careful...

1. I measured my chamber/over all length of cartridge. (two ways):
A--I dropped my longest bullet into the chamber and pushed it snug against the rifling. then I used a dowel and carefully marked it at the end of the chamber. I then measured the bullet and the dowel and got 3 5/8"

B-- I closed the breech and dropped a 7/16" dowel down the bore and marked the end of the muzzle. Then I dropped my longest bullet into the chamber and pushed it snug against the rifling, and then carefully dropped the same dowel down the bore and marked the dowel at the muzzle when it stopped at the nose of the seated bullet. It measured the same 3 5/8"

C-- I took a small dowel and carefully slid it into the chamber, dragging it to where it caught on the transition and marked it. I then compared it to an empty cartridge and it was the same measure.

2. I inspected my brass and it appears that I have three different kinds of brass.
A. Starline 45-90 measured length of two= (2.406")
B. BB 45-90 measured length of two= (2.375" to 2.406")
C. CSA 40 45 BASIC measured length of two= (2.406" to 2.437")

3. I hammered a 50 cal lead roundball in about 1 inch past the chamber into the bore and then drove it back out. The groove mik'd at .456" (I could not get a measure of the bore as the lands were more narrow than my micrometer posts?)

4. The longer of the cast gg bullets I have measures 1 5/16" long and the diameter meausrements are: .458" on the driving rings. .456 at the front driving ring. The measure of the nose just forward of the first driving ring measured .4485"

So... does it appear that I DO have that freebore issue? So where do I go from here?

thanks and I apologize for asking so many questions.

Ken
I HATE RABBITS

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1578
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ranch 13 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:13 pm

You might want to get some Norma basic brass, and a Lee 45-70 case trimmer. Slowly and carefully trim the brass until it will just chamber and see what that length is. I'm wondering if that thing isn't a 3 1/4 or maybe a 2 7/8 chamber? Or just go ahead with the cerrosafe and do a chamber cast to see just how much case length that chamber should take, and how much "freebore" it may or may not have.

YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:58 am

I am going to need to get a chamber cast thats all there is to it.

K
I HATE RABBITS

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1578
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ranch 13 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:22 am

Chamber cast will sure take the guess work out of it, plus save alot of time and trouble.

YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:58 am

but... because I am stubborn and dumb and curious, just for the heck of it, I hammered a large lead roundball down into that freebore area before the rifling? I got a sample that starts at the edge of the case and somewhere just shy of where the rifling begins. I measured the area just after the case transiton diameter aprox = .461" and then I measured the closest place I got to where I think the rifling began diameter aprox = .460" this seems to confirm that my chamber resembles Brents drawing.

So my question is, is there a commercially offered bullet that y'all think would work better in this chamber that I should order and try out?

K
I HATE RABBITS

DRCook
PostsCOLON 472
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:25 pm

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by DRCook » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:34 am

You could take a bullet and seat it in the case backwards so that you have the full base pointing out. Leave plenty sticking out. Then push the combination in easily and see how much case is out of the chamber. Push the bullet into the case that far and the remainder of the bullet base sticking out is how much freebore there really is.

If you do have one of those excessive freebore barrels, then other options are probably in order. You might eventually get it to shoot....... but.........
drcook = david r, not dr. but thanks for the compliment :)

YosemiteSam
PostsCOLON 45
JoinedCOLON Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 am
LocationCOLON Near Yosemite, CA
CONTACTCOLON

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 am

well I'll do that amd measure the freebore that way--good idea.

I know its probably easier in the long run to rebarrel if I have one of these, but since I cannot do that right now --probably be a year or so maybe more, then I might as well experiment and have some fun shooting this gun in the mean time.

K
I HATE RABBITS

BUTTON_POST_REPLY