Newbie intro and plea for help

Items of primary interest to the new BPCR shooter. Loading, BP SAFETY, sources of materials, rifles, etc.
YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:54 am

By the way, the gun is marked Montana not farmingdale, so maybe it does not have the freebore problem at all... we'll see.

K
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Brent
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Brent » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:10 pm

That's interesting. I think my rifle is a couple years newer than yours and it says Farmingdale.

One can hope.
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:41 pm

Well, I believe the serial number begins with 6? I gotta go check it again, but when I asked Shiloh they just told me it was "mid 80s."

Everywhere the gun says Montana-- nowhere does it say Farmingdale. Boy, if I have one less strike against me, I sure would be tickled. Sheesh I have enough issues with MY part of the equation... I admit that I have no formal training and so I am sure my technique is terrible, but I sincerely want to learn so... here I am. Heck I figure it will do nothing but improve my flintlock and other shooting too-- win win.

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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by montana_charlie » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:22 pm

YosemiteSam wroteCOLONI am all for experimenting!! and HAVE measured the OAL of the chamber that way already----- With a bullet pushed snug into the rifling I used a dowel and marked the dowel at the base of where the case fits flat. The OAL is 3.25". The 52Os end up being seated in the case with one grease groove and one driver showing out of the case.
That doesn't sound like a chamber with six tenths of freebore ...
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:08 pm

Charlie, you are making me a right happy galoot. But I will check closer when I get home tonight...I don't want to get my hopes up to much.

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Ranch 13
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ranch 13 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:46 pm

You might want to send a pm to Lumpy Grits either here or the Shiloh forum or Historic shooting, see just how far apart you guys are and maybe see about getting together. Nothing like getting handson experience with some one that's already been there done that.. :)

John Boy

Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by John Boy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:15 pm

Don, Grits is 5 hours from Sam.

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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ranch 13 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:34 pm

:lol: Well they'll need to plan carefully then.. :)

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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:49 pm

OK--- I took a hard look in the chamber.... This barrel does have a transition between the chamber and the rifling itself --more than just an angular ledge. BUT it looks to my eye anyway to be .20" ? It will be impossible to tell exactly with out a chamber casting. Shining a light and then gently dragging a long needle over the area-and by feel, I CAN say that it IS definately more than .0125" and less than .3"--maybe less than .25" And it extends past the chamber ridge transition 'til it touches the rifling. It seems to be the same diameter as the bore and flat---the rifling is "proud" of it.

ALSO Brent, I stand corrected!!!!
My rifle has NO reference to either Farmington or Montana... It simply has "old reliable" in an Italic Scrip enclosed in a rectangle with angle 45 degree corners and "C. Sharps Arms Co. Inc." Then "Caliber 45 over 2 4/10" . The Serial number is indeed "61_ _." It has a schnabble forestock and a military style steel butt plate. A 30" octagon tapered barrel. The rifle without the tang sight, weighs 9.5 lbs.

So all I can do is try some properly built cartridges with the bullet seated out so it is snug to the rifling and see what happens.

thanks for all of the help.

Ken
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Brent » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:52 pm

Ken,
Yes, seat out as far as you can make it work. Use a big bullet. I be the freebore is actually larger than groove diameter, so use a big bullet if possible. And swab between shots instead of blow tubing.

I haven't checked my rifle for a serial but I will tomorrow.

Brent
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:06 pm

The chamber area is larger diameter than the "freebore" area, (the angular transition is dark) and then the rifling is proud of the transition diameter, but the freebore looks flush with the groove depth--- I can maybe see a very thin half a hair or thinner line when I use a light, but it is very very thin the needle point skimmed right over it without catching at all. Without a bright light and viewing at a slight angle, it is invisible. I hope this makes sense.

I have taken the tang sight off so I can keep it simple and use the barrel sights for now. I will not be shooting past a hundred yards for a bit. Look--- for my lack of ability, And humble expectations, I would be pretty happy if I can maintain-- a 4" group at a hundred yards. That would mean that I would theoretically have an 8" group at 200 yards. If I halved that group? I'd be all cocky and think I was Dan'l Boone or Tim Murphy, and my 18th C living history pards would be jealous and stick a knife under my ribs or butt stroke me whilst I was snoring by the fire...

For a flintlock shooter of my ability (and aging eyes), that would be really good. Like I said, I aint greedy! :wink:

Ken
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by gunlaker » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:19 am

I do know it's possible with enough fiddling to get those early freebored rifles to shoot. One of the guys I regularly shoot with has owned one of these rifles for many years and it shoots well for him. I do not know how much time he has invested in it, but I've seen it shoot some pretty small groups and I believe he's done well enough shooting silhouette with it. I was very surprised to learn that he does not seat his bullets way out but says the shoot best with some "jump" to the lands.

Chris.

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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Ray Newman » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:47 pm

My $.02:

--First, thoroughly clean the bore of any and all copper and lead fouling.

Copper fouling and leading is/can be at times difficult to see with the naked eye. Just because the bore looks clean, does not necessarily mean it is.

A Lead Wipe Away cloth, JB's Paste, or bronze wool will work wonders for cleaning up a bore.

Copper fouling attracts lead; lead attracts copper. A Shooter needs to carefully remove all traces of copper fouling before shooting and vice versa. Many Shooters do not understand this and/or fail to do it. NRA tests showed that shooting a jacketed bullet(s) will not remove lead; instead it just more evenly spreads the lead throughout in the bore.

--Second, as another poster suggested have a chamber cast done. If you can not do this yourself, a gunsmith should be able to this.

A chamber cast is important as it will tell you exactly how long the chamber is. Shooting short brass and lead in a long chamber will lead to leading and accuracy issues. The bullet swages up to fit the chamber; then swages down to fit the bore.

My hermaphrodite Shiloh/C. Sharps .45-2.4” is going on 27 years old. The original barrel had a great deal of free bore and did not shoot very well. When re-barreled with a Badger, C. Sharps cut the chamber to 2.443” plus. As a result, “standard” .45-2.4” brass was/is way too short, so I purchased .45-2.6” brass and trimmed it fit the chamber – 2.443”. The rifle shoots about 2 MOA and it is next in line for paper patching.

--Third, some on line reloading primers:

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/

http://users.isp.com/aconitum/BPCR%20ReLoading.html

http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/Intr ... oading.pdf

And a very helpful book:

“Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West,” by Mike Venturino available from Buffalo Arms.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Shooting_Buf ... x?CAT=4150
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YosemiteSam
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by YosemiteSam » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:01 pm

ok went out and bought a micrometer. Had my college mech engineering student son verify my measures because, I am an art director for an ad agency and have a natural propensity to lie.

both bullets measure .4575 on the first driving ring near the tip, and .457 on the base diameter.

Ken
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Brent
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Re: Newbie intro and plea for help

Post by Brent » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:46 pm

Well, if you never get to shooting well you can at least do comedy!

Still no idea what could cause such drastically bad accuracy.
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