First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Discussion on Bullets and Bullet Lubes, Casting, Swaging, Paper Patching, and Lube Cookies.
kevo
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First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by kevo » Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:43 pm

I've been working on my intro to PP bullets with black powder. I've read Randolph Wright's 'Loading & Shooting Paper Patched Bullets. A beginners guide' and Paul Matthews 'The Paper Jacket' and received info from various shooters on these forums. One shooter very kindly sent me some bullets already patched and the size for my bore. The progress so far.
The bullets are.446" in dia, they are 542gr,flat base and patched in onion paper. My bore is 0.451" and these bullets seem to fit very well.
My load is 72gr of Swiss 2F, one wad over powder, a lube cookie with another card wad on top. (The card wads are made from milk cartons and the lube is 1Part beeswax, plus 2 Parts lambs tallow with some anhydrous lanolin mixed in and these cookies are 0.1" thick) The bullet is set into the shell 0.160" and lightly taper crimped, so that the bullet will just turn in the cartridge. There is very little compression at this stage and no air gaps in the bullet, but if these go OK, my plan is to increase the powder slightly and increase the compression to keep all the other bullet measurements the same. I will get to test these bullets tomorrow. They fit well into the rifle and I plan to wipe the bore out after each shot. Thanks to all those who have assisted so far. Tomorrow can't come quick enough. Am I on the right track so far, have I forgotten anything important?

martinibelgian
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by martinibelgian » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:53 am

Maybe one thing: if you plan on wiping the bore after every shot, no need for the lube cookie - which means more powder.

Brent
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by Brent » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:05 am

I'm with Gert. If you wipe, no lube. You can, and should, use 80-85 gr of powder and very little compression. A 0.06" wad is important.
I'm not from here, I just live here.

kevo
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by kevo » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:02 pm

No lube?? What about on the paper patch itself? Does this affect barrel life? Sorry, but this is the first time I've come across no lube. Any more info here??

Brent
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by Brent » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:42 am

No lube anywhere. Really. Not even on the patch. If it affects Bartel life, I can't tell yet and I've shot many, many thousands of rounds downstream with no loss of accuracy whatsoever.

I don't know what else to say. No lube will produce the most accurate ammunition. Plus, it won't melt in the sun and contaminate powder or patch, won't attract grit and dirt, and loaded rounds can be stored in definitely with no loss of accuracy.

A stiff wad is, however, required when using a bore diameter bullet.
I'm not from here, I just live here.

kevo
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by kevo » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:22 am

Brent when you say a stiff wad, do you mean say a 0.60 vegetable wad? Tested MY FIRST PP bullets today and they performed beautifully. Small group and paper came out like a burst of confetti. Now I will test more bullets on Saturday at the range and increase powder, compression, play with primers and lose the lube in time, one step at a time. There goes all my spare time!! Many thanks to all who made suggestions. Cheers, Kevo

Brent
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by Brent » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:49 am

Yes, a fiber wad or a stiff plastic wad of the same thickness. I really like John Walter's fiber wads, personally.
I'm not from here, I just live here.

Crash Landing
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by Crash Landing » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:18 pm

Brent
If you don't mind sharing, what is your powder fouling mitigation regimen with that bullet/wad load?
Crash

kevo
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by kevo » Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:20 pm

Well I tried the 'no 'lube' method on Saturday with 78 and 80 gr of powder and everything seemed to go well. I only have limited bullets at the moment thanks to Bruce sending me some to try. When my new mould arrives I'll be able to give better details on accuracy & speed, but the few bullets I tried certainly fired well. Cleanup was a wet patch & 2 dry patches after each shot. I use a quick spray on with 'bore wipe' from Arizona Sharpshooters. No loading problems, bullets fitted into chamber with almost no resistance. Once I get my mould, I'll be able to test all the variables and see what sort of group I can muster.

Brent
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Re: First time PP Bullets in 45-70

Post by Brent » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:58 am

Crash Landing wroteCOLONBrent
If you don't mind sharing, what is your powder fouling mitigation regimen with that bullet/wad load?
Sorry, been out of touch for a couple of weeks.

With target rifles , 45-70, 82 gr swiss 1.5 and 0.06 Walters fiber or BACO LDPE wad, I use 2 wet, 1 dry for BPTR, or bore pig with dry patch at BPCR. All wetness being H2O.

Bullets are either a 514 gr 411 Prolate or a 537 gr 411 Prolate, depending on application. 16:1 alloy, always.

For hunting, it depends, but this week it was 68 gr 1.5 fg Swiss, of course. 3 wax paper or cooking parchment wads, 0.12" of home brew lube, 0.06 LDPE wad, and bullet.

There are several bullets but roughly 420-537 grs, cast 30 or 40:1. Different noses for different adventures.

Lube is 50-50 beeswax and sheep tallow (dixiegunworks.com) and a splash of jojoba (or sperm) oil.
I'm not from here, I just live here.

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