Lyman 457125, 457132 or 457193

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Olsen
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Lyman 457125, 457132 or 457193

Post by Olsen » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:46 am

I'm about to get one of the mentioned molds, but would appreciate some help in choosing between them.

I have a Pedersoli 1874 45-70. Main purpose is hunting, range up to 300 yards. I will however aim for 1moa accuracy as game will range from goose to deer in size.

Will the 457193 be to light a bullet? I see that the 457125 is the favorite of many of the forum members.
The bullet will probably also be used for SP loads (due to local regulations).

John Boy

Post by John Boy » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:57 am

Olsen, buy the Lyman 457132 Postell mold and don't look back.

Here's my 'lucky' 100yd target (14 bullets in the ragged hole out of 25 shots) ...
Image

And 7 shots in a row hit a 1000yd target that was 55" wide x 48" high using the Postell from a Pedersoli.

If you want to buy a bullet mold that was specifically designed for the Pedersoli chamber dimensions, the Paul Jones Pedersoli 45021 mold is it ...
http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/45_caliberpage2.htm

Michael Rix
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Post by Michael Rix » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:46 pm

If, as you say, hunting is the main use, my choice would be the 457-193 or 457-124 for sure. Those are hunting type bullets. The 457-193 was designed for as a copy of the Marlin factory bullet for lever and SS rifles.

The 457-193 has a lot of good history as a game getter for all size game that you in your part of the world or Americans might hunt. I have used it for target loads too and for use out to 300yds. a very accurate load should be not to hard to come by.

Opinions vary....
Michael Rix

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Vbull
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Post by Vbull » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:45 am

I agree with Michael. I've used the 457193 for many years in several Trapdoors as a hunting bullet and for target work. Out to 300 yards it works fine. Although I've used it at 600 yards in the Trapdoors, the 520 gr. bullet is better.

I've shot several white tail deer with the 457193 with a Trapdoor carbine. All of the bullets were thru and thru. All of the deer traveled 50-100 yards after being shot. (lung shots) The bullets were cast 30:1 and did not ruin any meat.

I would use the 330 gr. Gould HP, but it does not shoot as well in my Trapdoor. It does shoot great when sized down for use in my cap lock muzzleloader. I've also shot several deer with that bullet and they have varied from dead in their tracks to going only 25 yards. The hollow point does do much more damage. Cast 40:1 Frank M.

Olsen
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Post by Olsen » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:00 pm

The main purpose is indeed hunting, and I would expect the flat nose of the 193 to deliver a solid punch at game. At the game size I hunt, mainly red-deer (about whitetail size) it's really not neccesary with a hollow point as the 45 cal bullet will give a sufficient wound canal as it is.

I have been adviced from several different persons to use a bullet in the 500 gr range in my Sharps to get 1MOA accuracy, and my question would be if the 420 gr 193-bullet is heavy enough. Or to ask differently, would it be much more testing to get the 420 gr bullet to deliver good groupings rather than a bullet like the postell at about 500 gr.

I am currently using the Lee 405 HB which casts bullets about 398 gr in 1:20. This is the only mold I have for this rifle and it gives all sorts of results - from sub 1MOA to 3MOA. It can vary this much from one group to another at the same shooting session. Also with SP loads.

I will be ordering a Lyman mold in a few days, and for now it looks like it will the 457193.
I think. Still curious about the postell...
Maybe I have to order both of them :D

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montana_charlie
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Post by montana_charlie » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:25 pm

Olsen wroteCOLONI have been adviced from several different persons to use a bullet in the 500 gr range in my Sharps to get 1MOA accuracy, and my question would be if the 420 gr 193-bullet is heavy enough. Or to ask differently, would it be much more testing to get the 420 gr bullet to deliver good groupings rather than a bullet like the postell at about 500 gr.
The surest way to get small groups is to use a bullet which fits the rifle's chamber well. The Postell is intended for long-range accuracy, but the design is popular because so many rifles seem to 'like' it.
The 457125 is also 'liked' by many Sharps rifles, and with it's blunter shape...it might be better on wild game.

Unfortunately (and this applies to both the Postell and the Government bullets) Lyman's quality control has been rather poor lately. Their moulds still cast good bullets, but they are often undersized.

If your rifle is a Pedersoli, you really want a mould which drops a bullet of .460" diameter. If you have a Shiloh, it may be quite satisfied with a .458" bullet.

A 'loose' bullet that does not fit well will probably not shoot well...even if it is of a design that many rifles 'like'.

It would be an excellent idea if you find out what the internal dimensions of your chamber are...before settling on a mould.
CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

Olsen
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Post by Olsen » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:06 pm

From the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, ballistics chapter, I discovered the following regarding the three bullets mentioned above:

The 457193 is listed as a 420 gr bullet, the 457125 464 gr and the 457132 490 gr. I guess that's whith #2 alloy.
Looking at a MV of 1400 fps for all the bullets and zeroed at 100 yds the bullets will drop the following at 150 yds:
457193 - 7,73 in
457125 - 7,52 in
457132 - 7,54 in

If this is correct the 457132, weighing 70 gr more than the 457193, will drop 0,19 in less at 150 yds. And it will about equal the drop of the 457125.

If what the handbook says is true and proven, then I think my choice would clear. It seems to be agreed that the postell is the most likely to deliver small groups, and if it also will drop less at the same velocities as the others, then the bullet would be great for hunting purposes where trajectory is a concern. And I would appreciate the extra 70 gr at the same trajectory.

Any comments? Am I wrong in my conclusion?

TexasMac
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Post by TexasMac » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:47 pm

Olsen,

You didn't mention the twist rate in your Pedersoli. All Pedersoli .45-70's may be the same, but the twist rate is a significant factor in selecting a bullet.

Wayne
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Mike Bateman
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Post by Mike Bateman » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:34 pm

Olsen
I my Lyman catalogue the 457132 bullet weighs 535 gr and the ones I cast weighg close to that as well.
Mike.

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montana_charlie
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Post by montana_charlie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:05 pm

Olsen wroteCOLONIf this is correct the 457132, weighing 70 gr more than the 457193, will drop 0,19 in less at 150 yds. And it will about equal the drop of the 457125.
At the shorter ranges typical when hunting, a high Ballistic Coefficient is not very necessary. But your discovery shows how a better BC can provide a flatter trajectory...even when the bullet is heavier.

If a good BC is of interest to you, you might want to look at the PGT bullet. It is 'similar' to the Postell and Creedmoor (two popular long-range bullets) but it was designed for the Pedersoli chamber.

So, once again, bullet 'fit' in the chamber comes into play...and the PGT has a better ballistic coefficient than either of the others.

The only mould maker currently offering the design is Paul Jones. His moulds are high priced, but of excellent quality.
He calls it the "Pedersoli Chamber", but it's 'official' name is the Pedersoli-Gunn-Trenk bullet. It is his Item #45021.
Here it is (on his website) pictured right beside his version of the Postell...
http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/45_caliberpage2.htm

CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

Olsen
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Post by Olsen » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:03 pm

The twist rate in my Pedersoli is 1:18.

I ordered the Postell mould, so I'll take it from there. Couldn't get the mould handles though, seems it's sold out.

I'll get back with report of tiny tiny groups... :D (If I get the handles)

Rolling45-70
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Re: Lyman 457125, 457132 or 457193

Post by Rolling45-70 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:03 am

i found this old thread and would like to tie on the reply from Olsen

Mi Apr 01, 2009 10:06 pm
From the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, ballistics chapter, I discovered the following regarding the three bullets mentioned above:

The 457193 is listed as a 420 gr bullet, the 457125 464 gr and the 457132 490 gr. I guess that's whith #2 alloy.
Looking at a MV of 1400 fps for all the bullets and zeroed at 100 yds the bullets will drop the following at 150 yds:
457193 - 7,73 in
457125 - 7,52 in
457132 - 7,54 in

My reason for that is i have a Lyman Mould 457132 which drops Bullets with 490 grs weight opposide to given 535 grs
My Alloy are Roof Lead with a bit of Tin. Maybe a 30:1 Mix
I weight a batch of 50 Bullets with a difference about + - 1grs.
have post at CastBoolits and historical shooting .com also but nobody has a real explanation for the 40 gr difference
Maybe somebody have just more info as Olsen tells with his info about the Lyman Cast Bullet Book.
I was informed that a 415,457,and 535 grs version exist but no 490 grs of this Postell

thx for help

Klaus

laowho
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Re: Lyman 457125, 457132 or 457193

Post by laowho » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:23 am

Olsen,

We have the 125 and the 132, and I've yet to cast the 125 but I will soon, reason being that I like the 132 so much. Note too that it drops at about 520 gr., but have read that these tend to vary (20:1 at about 750 degrees, no frosting, and so reckon I'm getting them about as full-sized and heavy as I can). You won't be disappointed, the only caveat possibly bein that mine likes .458 and others say yer gonna want .460. Keep yer melt cool if I'm understanding casting properly. Others will say if I'm reading things wrong.

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