Loads 45-70

Discussion of BPCR loading techniques, SAFETY, Case Cleaning and Prep, Indexing, BP Choice, Primers, Wads, Compression, Drop Tubes, Vibration, Load Testing, etc.
james fraker
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Loads 45-70

Post by james fraker » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:32 am

I need some help and advice concerning cast non gas checked loads with smokeless powder for Marlins 1895 Cowboy 45-70 vintage 2005 and a 1895 22 1/2 inch 45-70 vintage 1990. Both bores measure .458. Both will shoot jacketed or cast bullets with gas checks in 1-1/2 inch groups. But with cast non gas checks groups open up to 4 plus inches. If possible I would to use Laser Cast Bullets because of availiabilty in 300,350 and 405 weights non gas checked. Any help with loads would be appreciated. Thanks much. Jim Fraker

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montana_charlie
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Post by montana_charlie » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:55 pm

A first thought would be to wonder how hard you are pushing the jacketed and gas checked bullets...and if you are shooting plain base lead with the same velocity.

Then one wonders if you are shooting gas check designs with no check applied.

Finally, it is considered necessary (by most) to totally remove all traces of copper from a bore, before shooting lead bullets.
CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

james fraker
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Reply to Montana Charlie

Post by james fraker » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:38 pm

I believe my loads are not hot enough to deform the bases. The Laser Cast bullets have hardness of around 23+. My gas checked 300gr. are at 1406 fps and the 300gr non gas check at about the same. The Laser Cast are a commercial bullet that are made for no gas checks. Also I shoot the Laser Cast in my 38-55 Marlin, the 240gr non gas checked at 1430 fps and the groups are 1 1/2 inches. Lastly I have spent a good deal of time cleaning the barrels. I appreciate thoughts, thanks Jim Fraker

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montana_charlie
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Post by montana_charlie » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:20 pm

At that muzzle velocity (and pressure) I would try softer bullets...not more than 12 BHN.
CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

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Ranch 13
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Post by Ranch 13 » Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:08 pm

You most likely need to have your plain based bullets sized at .459 or better yet .460. Lube is vitally important to good plain base accuracy, if you're using the hard plastic crayon type lube that so many commercial casters use , accuracy is likely to never show up. A good soft lube that does a good job of coating the bore all the way to the muzzle, letting the bullet actually ride on a thin film of lube is what works best.
Super hard bullets like lazer cast don't usually work well at the moderate velocity of the 45-70, something along the lines of Lyman's #2 alloy will be as hard as a plain base bullet will ever need.

crossfireoops
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Good Lord

Post by crossfireoops » Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:22 pm

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skycap
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Post by skycap » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:03 am

James,
I shoot a 45-70 with a 405 Laser Cast Bullets with 36grs. of 3031 and it gives me about 1350 fps. I'm shooting a Shiloh Sharps Long Range Express and am getting ready to try the same load in a Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block, John Bodine this week. I getting about a 1"moa at 100 yards. I have a friend that shoots the same rife and uses 25gr. of 5744 and get 1 to 2" moa but can not tell you the Muzzle vol. is
hope this helps

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