Dick... 1 volumetric grain...

Discussion of BPCR loading techniques, SAFETY, Case Cleaning and Prep, Indexing, BP Choice, Primers, Wads, Compression, Drop Tubes, Vibration, Load Testing, etc.
Etienne Brule
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Dick... 1 volumetric grain...

Post by Etienne Brule » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:17 pm

Hi

I read this great article by Mr Dick Trenk. I learned +++, while waiting for my Pedersoli Sharps Silhouette.

I am wowndering what is the way to measure 1 VOLUMETRIC grain of BP ??


You have to start somewhere so I suggest doing the following.

1. Position your bullet in the case so it is in light contact with the rifling of the barrel.
2. Use enough BP so that the bullet (and wad) will then compress the powder .050" when the bullet and wad are seated to this length.
3. Load and fire 5 rounds at a paper target and write down the group size .
4. Add 1.0 grain (by volume) to the powder charge and make no other changes
I thank you for the attention

Gerald... a real beginner in BPCR... but a real fan...

runnin lead
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Post by runnin lead » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:02 am

if you take a powder measure and set it at 100 gr and throw a charge that by weight weighs 100 gr your weight by volume would be 1gr by weight = 1gr by volume ,if it were to come out to 96 gr by weight itwould be .96gr by weight = 1 gr by volume
take 5 or 10 charges measured by volume & weigh them & devide by
number of charges thrown for an average you may have a verry small variation from one charge to the next
different powder manufactures & different granulations will varry some from volume to weight measurements
if your measure is not set up this way use a powder measure for a muzzle loader ,if you dont have one thats what friends are for
KG0BW Jim

runnin lead
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Post by runnin lead » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:06 am

or better yet go buy a measure for a muzzle loader, then you will have an excuse to go out & buy a muzzle loader :D
KG0BW Jim

Swede45
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Post by Swede45 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:25 am

One volymetric grain is an old unit from the day when accurate scales were unusual and powder were measured by volume, not weight
Its the volume of one grains of water. (not exatly one grain weight of powder depending on density)
You can buy an adjusteble volume Powder measure (a brass tube with a sliding piston on a graduated shaft)
They are usually graduated in 5 grain incriments. (50-55-60-65-70)
With an calipper you can divide those into 1 grains.
/S

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montana_charlie
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Post by montana_charlie » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:14 am

Swede45 wroteCOLONOne volymetric grain is an old unit from the day when accurate scales were unusual and powder were measured by volume, not weight
Its the volume of one grains of water.
I have tried on a number of occasions to tell people that is true.
None have believed me, yet.
CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

Etienne Brule
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Post by Etienne Brule » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:00 pm

Swede45 wroteCOLON...

You can buy an adjusteble volume Powder measure (a brass tube with a sliding piston on a graduated shaft)
They are usually graduated in 5 grain incriments. (50-55-60-65-70)
With an calipper you can divide those into 1 grains.
/S
Hi,

I already have an adjusteble volume Powder measure; it is graduated in 5 grains incriments.

You said "divide the 5 grains increments by 5... "

Give me the name of your ophtalmologist... I just cannot do it.. (LOL LOL)...

But I will surely weight the 1 grain increment...

IMHO... 1 or 4 grains of black powder ... wil it really make the difference, even at 600 yards..??

I think that I would REALLY appreciate Dick's opinion.

Gerald

Swede45
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Post by Swede45 » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:09 am

I totally agree!
Personally I also havent notised any differece in accurasy between 75 or 77 grains but I havent shoot on longer ranges than 300 meters yet.
But it is always interesting to experiment with different loads....

"It is better to measure approximate right, than exactly wrong" :D

/Regards S

Etienne Brule
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Post by Etienne Brule » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:10 pm

I totally agree too...

I am a bit obsessive-compulsive...LOL LOL and was just wondering why Dick is talking of "one volumetric grain"

Maybe that I am missing something. Anyway I will surely test those +- 1 grain loads.

Etienne

crossfireoops
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Volumetric

Post by crossfireoops » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:24 pm

For whatever it's worth,....

When you get a BPCR load that shoots great, ....and go to change to another lot# of Powder........

Have your volumetric charge recorded.

Weights be damned,......it'll get you well into the same envelope of accuracy.

I think I'll go have a beer.

GTC 8)

martinibelgian
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Post by martinibelgian » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:28 am

GTC,

I agree completely - and not only about the beer!

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Post by Billy Thunder » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:19 pm

I'm also a rookie at this, but increasing the charges a little at a time makes other changes to the load that could affect accuracy.
1. The size of the pwder charge - obviously
2. The amount of compression.
3. The vibrations the charge sets up in the barrel.
4. The amount of upset caused to the bullet.
5. Differences in the fouling.
There may be more, but that is off the top of my head...

crossfireoops
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Re: Volumetric

Post by crossfireoops » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:24 pm

crossfireoops wroteCOLONFor whatever it's worth,....

When you get a BPCR load that shoots great, ....and go to change to another lot# of Powder........

Have your volumetric charge recorded.

Weights be damned,......it'll get you well into the same envelope of accuracy.

I think I'll go have a beer.

GTC 8)
Martini,.......

This approach has never let me down....., and from your response,I reckon that you've proved it, too.

Part of the "Savvy" that gets lost in all sortsa' fancy dancing....and looking for an easy fix.........which there AIN"T.

I got a "Tech Tip" here....in this regard, for those that find a Lyman 55 acceptable ( I do)

Use your vernier calipers to define your "Stickout"....on your brass cylinder.

BETTER accuracy than trying to record offa' the scale.

Merry CHRISTmas,

GTC 8)

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Ranch 13
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Post by Ranch 13 » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:57 pm

Oops that's one of them , why didn't I thunk ob dat deals. :D Good tip and thank you.

Dutch Bill
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Post by Dutch Bill » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:26 am

Swede45 wroteCOLONOne volymetric grain is an old unit from the day when accurate scales were unusual and powder were measured by volume, not weight
Its the volume of one grains of water. (not exatly one grain weight of powder depending on density)
You can buy an adjusteble volume Powder measure (a brass tube with a sliding piston on a graduated shaft)
They are usually graduated in 5 grain incriments. (50-55-60-65-70)
With an calipper you can divide those into 1 grains.
/S

I have a 30 year old Treso adjustable powder measure. Sealed off the bottom with wax and calibrated it in the lab. At the 100 setting on the stem it held exactly 100 grains weight of water.

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montana_charlie
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Post by montana_charlie » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:23 am

Dutch Bill wroteCOLONAt the 100 setting on the stem it held exactly 100 grains weight of water.
My 45/90 cases hold just a wee bit less than 90 grains of water.
I think the disparity stems from modern cases having more metal in them than their nineteenth century counterparts.
Winchester brass probably holds the correct amount of water.
CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

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