Tell me what happened ?

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Woodgoat
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Tell me what happened ?

Post by Woodgoat » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:01 am

Yesterday I finally got all my swingers hung. Full size at full yardages. Had a buddy spotting for me on this first test and was mostly just wanting to see what the zero's would be so I was shooing off bags. Started on the ram and after a few shots got the zero and was hitting about 50% and real close on the misses for about 15 shots. Ok, went on to the turkey and the pig with no problems, then shot at some chickens for awhile. I was blowing every shot and wiping every ten shots and letting the gun cool because it was about 90 degrees yesterday. At the end of the session, I had a few bullets left, so I was going to shoot the ram again. Here's the thing I cant figure out. I had written the zero down, so I went back to the proper settings and let fly, just over his back, next shot was a hit, next shot, over his back, next shot, over his back, so I come down 2moa, next two shots high, come down two more minutes, next two shots high, I was finally down 8moa from where I started and hit him 3 in a row with my last 3 bullets. What caused that you think? The gun was mighty hot at the end, but seemed to be shooting ok. Seemed like it just wanted to walk high for the first eight or ten shots. Puzzling stuff.
As long as there's lead in the air, there's hope.

ND Sharpshooter
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Post by ND Sharpshooter » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:00 am

Could be different angle of sunlight on targets or even on the background or maybe mirage set in by the end of your session. Paul Matthews has some good info on this in one of his little books. We shoot toward the south at our range and sunny to clouds covering sun makes a difference and mirage makes for interesting sighting problems too. Just my thoughts and experiences.
"Never said I didn't know how to use one."

Woodgoat
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Post by Woodgoat » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:35 pm

Thanks ND, maybe thats what happened. I was shooting towards the south and it was very bright sunlight with lots of glare and looking through the spotting scope was almost like looking through water. The thing that confused me was the fact that I hit the ram on the second shot, but then my point of impact seemed to walk up 8 minutes over the next few shots. I've never done this kind of shooting before and that just seemed like an awful lot of error to me.
As long as there's lead in the air, there's hope.

Woodgoat
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Post by Woodgoat » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:27 am

I did some more shooting yesterday, and saw the same thing again. I guess its the light, but being new to this kind of shooting I wasnt sure. It just dont seem like there would be that much variation in zero from one hour to the next. Its fun trying to figure this stuff out though. In the Silhouette matches, are sighters allowed before each bank of targets? Establishing zero's "on the fly" will cost me a bunch of misses I think. Is that just part of the game?
As long as there's lead in the air, there's hope.

johnny
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Post by johnny » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:34 am

:lol: Seems to me that uncle sam said something about the light when shooting.

Something like light uo-sight up
light down sight down???????

still can't figure this out..maybe someone can shed some light on it..john

RMulhern
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Post by RMulhern » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:55 am

johnny wroteCOLON:lol: Seems to me that uncle sam said something about the light when shooting.

Something like light uo-sight up
light down sight down???????

still can't figure this out..maybe someone can shed some light on it..john
Johnny

Well....it's really a simple thing called 'irradiation' which means that there is light reflecting off a round bullseye when the target face is lit up by bright sunlight. If one is shooting the Service Rifle with a post front sight and is attempting to hold a 6 o/clock hold.....the tendency is to HOLD the front sight tangent to the bull but due to the slight reflection off the target face....there is somewhat of a false image projected to the shooter's eye and if not corrected for by taking maybe a MOA up....the shot will go low! Conversely....if the target face is dull or in shadow....the tendency is to hold somewhat higher.....and if not corrected by a MOA down......the shot goes high!!

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Bad Ass Wallace
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Post by Bad Ass Wallace » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:23 am

Having just shot Creedmoor 2006, I have reservations about the effectiveness of blowtubing. The humidity of the air both atmospheric and in your lungs must have an effect on the happenings inside that barrel.

After having too many high shots I was encouraged to clean after each shot one pass with a wet patch and one pass with a dry one. With the same sight settings, the high shots dissapeared and strings of hits at 1000yds returned.

My concern with blowing is that unless it is done absolutely the same, shot to shot, there are going to be variations in the hardness of the fouling after each shot that will affect the bullets flight. Cleaning would be more consistant, a result that was born out by higher scores from the "cleaners.
Hold Still Varmint; while I Plugs Yer!

RMulhern
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Post by RMulhern » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:21 am

Bad Ass Wallace wroteCOLONHaving just shot Creedmoor 2006, I have reservations about the effectiveness of blowtubing. The humidity of the air both atmospheric and in your lungs must have an effect on the happenings inside that barrel.

After having too many high shots I was encouraged to clean after each shot one pass with a wet patch and one pass with a dry one. With the same sight settings, the high shots dissapeared and strings of hits at 1000yds returned.

My concern with blowing is that unless it is done absolutely the same, shot to shot, there are going to be variations in the hardness of the fouling after each shot that will affect the bullets flight. Cleaning would be more consistant, a result that was born out by higher scores from the "cleaners.
BAW

Knowing where you are....in country that's normally HIGH & DRY.....I'd think that under your shooting conditions ANY METHOD MIGHT be a problem! But....with that being said.....I've observed at Raton, New Mexico where it's also HIGH & DRY (6400' & 30% or lower HFactor) that good shooters there were also wiping.....and they fell through their arses so bad from 1000 yds. that THEIR CAP BRIMS didn't even touch when they went through! :( :? :roll: In my location of the southern USA we normally DO NOT experience many occasions with very low humidity but on occasion I have seen it as low as 15% here which is quite unusual! I have made it to the range on occasion during some of those few days and with a heavy charge of Goex 1F (108 to 112 grs.) with a heavy bullet I have been able to shoot reasonable aka acceptable group sizes from 1000 yds. with my Shiloh .45/110. On NORMAL DAYS of humidity, say 65 to 78%.....about 6 huffs....after a swallow of bottled water...is enough to keep fouling soft! Under the lower humidity conditions....I have to use maybe 10-11 blows (gives a chance for your barrel to not overheat) to accomplish the same thing! Whatever method one uses I think is going to basically depend upon personal preference but......for me....I DO NOT like the idea of wiping away whatever lube is deposited within the bore with a patch because it has been my personal observation that it takes some of these rifles/loads about 5-7 rounds downrange before it appears that they 'settle down' and deliver reasonable groups using the 'huffing/puffing method! I've used patches with distilled water, patches w/plain water/patches with lamp oil, patches with WHALE OIL, and in the final analysis....I always come back to 'huffing/puffing'!! :roll: :roll:

G'day mate!! :lol: :lol:

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Bad Ass Wallace
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Post by Bad Ass Wallace » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:05 am

Maybe with "old age" my huffing & puffing ain't what it used to be :lol: :lol:
You are right, both methods have merit depending on the atmospheric conditions prevailing during a match.
All the Kiwi's wiped and they won the team shoot at 800,900 & 1000yds.
Hold Still Varmint; while I Plugs Yer!

martinibelgian
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Post by martinibelgian » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:15 am

IMO, quite a lot of variables there - I tried wiping, but each time I used it, my barrel leaded so badly I could mine lead in there... OTOH, no problems with blowtubing. Maybe I need to wipe with moose milk, I don't know, but it has always given me trouble. I would like it to work, as typically it will give you between 25-50 fps extra - not to be sneezed at for the LR shooting game.

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Bad Ass Wallace
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Post by Bad Ass Wallace » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:28 am

What is moose milk; ie is soluble machine cutting oil?

The New Zealanders used this soluble oil on their wet patches followed by a dry tight fitting patch. The dry patches were clean but the wet ones exhibited some lead and the solution seemed to work very well.

Everyone was having trouble with the 20-35mph side winds but the most noticable thing about wiping was the consistancy of elevation adjustments.

The blowers were having a fouling shot off to one side before commencing to shoot the allowable sighters.

I abandoned the blowing during day 2 and afterward shot some respectible scores. I think Ironjaw has it right; have both available and use to suit the conditions.

During the Creedmoor 2006 shoot, the 20mph wind was moisture laden (80% humidity) blowing directly down the barrel while the shooter was trying to blow air in the direct opposite direction. Who knows what effect that may have had?
Hold Still Varmint; while I Plugs Yer!

martinibelgian
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Post by martinibelgian » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:09 am

BA,
yes it is - except that I use a mixture of ballistol and water. Also, at the beginning I didn't like wind - but a stiff breeze is fine, you know - as long as it is constant. A light, continually switching breeze (force and direction)will drive me crazy...

ND Sharpshooter
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Post by ND Sharpshooter » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:41 am

Martinibelgian, What are the proportions of Ballistol and water in your mix? Thanks.
"Never said I didn't know how to use one."

martinibelgian
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Post by martinibelgian » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:43 am

About 10:1 water - ballistol, although it can vary (more water).... I also use it for cleaning out the fouling after shooting or between relays - it won't cause rust like plain water will do. (ask me how I know...)

Billy W Henson
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Post by Billy W Henson » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:32 am

First rule in long range shooting is lights up, sights up, lights down sights down.

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