where is bpcr headed?

This is the general discussion area for the forums at BPCR.net. Anyone who appreciates and enjoys the classic single shot rifles of the late 1800 period is welcome to take part here. Civility in all postings, and respect for your fellow shooters are the primary expectations of all members. Trolls will be removed from the membership without warning or recourse. The Forum owner has the final, and only, say in who is determined to be a troll. Please try to put your posts in the correct forum. (Example: loading tips and questions in the "Cartridge Loading..." forum.) Postings may be moved by the moderator to correct forums if he determines they can be better placed.
Lincoln Creek
PostsCOLON 68
JoinedCOLON Mon May 11, 2015 8:03 pm

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Lincoln Creek » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:52 pm

I hate to say it but it all revolves around money and time. 2015 was my first year of shooting silhouettes, so as a beginner this is what I found out. It’s an expensive hobby and its time consuming. Compare it to buying a ski boat or a fifth wheel camper. Both of those hobbies are expensive as well but they are a hobby that everyone in the family would enjoy. Most everyone in families likes boating and camping, not everyone in families enjoys shooting.
When you’re done boating or camping, you put the boat or camper up until next time. When I’m done shooting, I get home, clean guns, clean brass, and then spend a weekend or 2 loading up another 120 to 150 rounds for the match next month.
Did I mention it’s expensive? Those of us that haven’t come to grips as to this has the most effect on getting new shooters to join in are just plain uneducated. I haven’t tallied it up as to what I spent in 2015 to get into this game but I bet it is over $5,000 to get started. Sure boats and campers cost more, but you can finance those things. I doubt my banker would loan me $5,000 to $7,000 just to see if I like doing this. In 2016 I am trying to make the switch to casting my own bullets. Purchasing already cast bullets for all the matches I’ll attend in 2016 and practice would cost me about $1,200. Casting them would cost me less than half that, but I’ll have to buy the casting equipment, which will run me $500 to $700. Now I have just made my hobby cheaper, but more time consuming (casting, lubing, sizing, load development for that new mould). Supplies in 2016 for my ammunition will cost me about $600. Travel expenses will be about $1,750. Entry fees will be about $750. There are no 20 to 30 year olds gonna try to afford that and sacrifice the time unless they are wealthy or have a 6 figure job and single.
I’m 46 years old, self employed, married with an 11 year old son. It has taken me years to get up the nerve, purchase the equipment, practice loading and shooting, find the time, and get financially stable to try to shoot silhouettes, which could all change in a heartbeat since I’m self employed.
As a beginner this is my point of view on one things that would benefit this sport most to get young new shooters more interested and involved. Maybe some ranges do this. I don’t know.
1.) If a new shooter shows up to shoot a BIG match that he/she have never attended, he/she should get something. Not much, just a little something. Like the Regional’s, or the Championship at Raton, should give out a prize to that person because it was their first time shooting at the Championships. Can you imagine what that would do to a new shooter at Raton who gets a $100 gift certificate at Cal-Graf for a new shooting box or a gift certificate for $300 toward a new Shiloh sharps. The new shooters need the incentive to keep getting involved in participating. New equipment or money towards new essential things would help ease the financial burden that is dragging the sport down in my honest opinion. Doing this also lets the new guy feel good because at some matches he looks at his score at the end of the day and feels he is wasting his time and money.

In 2016 I plan on attending Raton for the first time and some regionals for the first time as well. No, I don't want or need a prize, If I got one I would donate it back to the range to give to someone else. I'm a pretty blessed person.

Just my opinion.

Oh yea, Ive been studying up on BPTR and I think I'm going to be getting into it as well. I have a serious problem I think.

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1584
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Ranch 13 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:45 pm

Up until this past bptr national, they did give an award to the "first time" shooter. They didn't this year which was a shame because there were 5 of them..
But yes it is expensive, but you left out the part about how most of us have the 5th wheel camper to stay in when we travel to a match. :wink:
As to your casting equipment, if you pick just one mould , and go with the Lee 20 lb solid bottom pot, and a good ladle from Lyman, or RCBS, and then pan lube the bullets, you can get by for 300$. Altho certified alloy is going to run the bill up, and then you'll have to add 3-4 hours a week to cast the bullets you'll need to shoot the next week.
But yes it is expensive, and young folks raising kids,just don't usually have the available cash to leap in with both feet, nor the time.

Premod70
PostsCOLON 104
JoinedCOLON Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:25 am

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Premod70 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:00 pm

At present the format of the Quigley match seems to draw as much interest as any form of BPCR shooting. Although I have never been to the match the "openness" of rifles one can shoot and the ease of the shooting position does draw my attention. I'm from NC and the ranges we shoot are usually under 300 yards, with reduced targets the challenge is still there but it is hard to get us old fellows to step away from the bench. As for powder choices the interest is 50/50 between black and white with no clear winner; our precision may not match those of other areas. I have fired a ASSRA over .40 cal bench event and found it most pleasing due to the bench, time allowed and the variety of rifles but I don't see it growing because most bench shooters do not, can not deal with the recoil and dwell time of the bullet in the barrel to fire competitive scores. I'm thankful there are clubs that still have members who enjoy the challenges of a BPCR and open their ranges to those of us that still love the fun of rifle shooting.

chaz
PostsCOLON 55
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:36 pm
LocationCOLON Erie, Pa.

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by chaz » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:15 pm

I have recently decided to get back into BPCR after being out quite awhile. I am also bringing one new shooter for sure and possibly a second shooter. The sport is expensive to get into initially and the rising costs of shooting supplies do not help either. I feel it is fair to say to get into this sport you are going to put out $2500 to $3000 to start unless you find a real good deal on a rifle and sights. then you need other items as well bullet molds, spotting scope and so forth it all piles up quick, but the fun is well worth it.

Charlie

laowho
PostsCOLON 15
JoinedCOLON Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:48 am

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by laowho » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:28 am

This has me thinkin of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uqjznmTp80

(That, or I've just been dyin to use this clip somewhere :lol: )

BUT, I do have a point to put forward, and since everyone's offerin up anecdotals, I'll post mine too. In brief, had guns when I was young, even an Uberti Win '73 in 44-40, but shooting got boring fast. Decades later I'm still wanting a gun, but what can hold my interest? Cowboy shooting? When I stumbled upon BPCR/BPTR I knew I'd hit the mother lode. As my wife and I talked, I learned that her father, a lifelong hunter and gun enthusiast, went over to muzzle loading late in life for hunting. Who does this?

Anyhoo, youz guyz all miss the point, maybe/probly cuz yer all old farts (like me). What happened after Quigley Down Under? Where are the videos on YouTube of all the GREAT matches goin on? Where are the documentaries? Look, I could wax rhapsodic re: the romance of the past, etc., but who needs it? BP is like the Zen of shooting, near as I can tell. But until y'all bring yer grandkids to events to operate a camcorder for ya and upload such to YouTube, nuthin's gonna change. And there's the rub. That, and the subtleties of this game might need a deft touch to adequately express the unbelievable nuance of BP shooting, the ways that it brings the promise of a lifetime of hands-on learning and satisfaction to sumthin as primal and fun as shootin a gun.

Premod70
PostsCOLON 104
JoinedCOLON Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:25 am

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Premod70 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:19 am

I agree with the last post, nothing can beat a sequel to the Quigley movie, maybe this time Selleck co-starring with the latest heart throb as his grandson or a buffalo shooting video game to get the youth of this country interested in shooting the smoke poles. Without a influx of new shooters the game will stay at it's present state or worst with time.

tedneff
PostsCOLON 9
JoinedCOLON Wed May 13, 2015 11:35 am

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by tedneff » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:00 pm

One more perspective from a new shooter of BPCR. Never shot a match, never dropped tubed a load, brand new rifle. Been collecting components for a few months. Just ordered my Shaver Sights. Trying to buy used in good condition and finally found a rifle (Pedersoli Slotter 1874) that I could do a partial trade for a somewhat rare handgun. Sold two more collector grade S&W revolvers for funds. Still a bit short on cash bet getting close. I really shopped for my rifle and thought I made a good choice. Now I read this thread and Brent mentioned an obscure rule where my Crescent is too deep to shoot BPCR. Crap, that sucks. How is a guy to know. As much time as I have spent reading, two years really, how would I know of a rule like this. Now what to do. I can see why guys get discouraged. Ted :cry:
Take my advice, Im not using it

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1584
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Ranch 13 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:50 pm

What sort of rifle did you buy? A regular crescent buttplate is alright, the military butt is ok, you just can't have the hooked schuetzen style plate, and the comb can only be a certain height.
With that said the rules aren't obscure, they are readily available on the NRA competitions web page.

tedneff
PostsCOLON 9
JoinedCOLON Wed May 13, 2015 11:35 am

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by tedneff » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:46 am

I bought a Pedersoli Slotter 1874. My butt plate measures 1.125" deep point to point. It is a historically accurate reproduction but appears to not meet the rule book.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda- ... maple.html
Take my advice, Im not using it

tedneff
PostsCOLON 9
JoinedCOLON Wed May 13, 2015 11:35 am

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by tedneff » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:02 am

Now im confused. Well maybe thats normal for me. To me it looks like 1.1/8" is OK :?: 3.15 is dealing with scoped BPCR right? Thanks, Ted
3.4.f
(f) Stock: Forearm must be attached and shall be of traditional design
not to exceed 2 inches in width, cannot extend below the line of the
bottom of the receiver or base of trigger guard, and no attachments
will be allowed on the forearm. Measured from the centerline of
the bore, the drop at the heel shall not exceed 2 3/4 inches; drop at
toe shall not exceed 8 inches. No portion of the rifle stock behind
the rifle action shall be higher than 3/4 inch below the centerline
of the bore. The butt shall not be longer than 5 1/4 inches top to
bottom. Cheek pieces are permitted, but no roll over. Pistol grips
are permissible, but no flared or hand-contoured styles. Crescentstyle
buttplates are permissible, but cannot be over 1 1/8 inch deep
when measured from a straight line from points of the buttplate.
Commercial recoil pads are permissible. Stocks and forearms must
be made of natural wood and must be in keeping with designs of
stocks of the era. (See Rule 3.18.

3.15
surface in which the depth of the curve exceeds 1/2 inch when measured
from a straight line drawn from the top to the bottom of the buttplate is prohib- ited. Buttplates must be centered. Adjustable cheek pieces must be fixed and
sealed in place. See 3.4(f) regarding Black Powder Cartridge Rifle. Rule 3.15
does not apply to Target or Open class Air Rifles.
Take my advice, Im not using it

rfd
PostsCOLON 26
JoinedCOLON Fri May 01, 2015 4:39 pm
LocationCOLON nor'east
CONTACTCOLON

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by rfd » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:57 am

tedneff, i don't see any match shooting rule concerns with the dimensions of yer pedi buttstock crescent, other than that crescents can be a tad hard on the shoulder during cartridge detonation. 8)

if yer new to bpcr or bptr or whatever, you'll have more important things to think about. that's a fine looking rifle ya got. i like pedi's, i think they're good value and good shooters, and i have a pair that i regularly shoot.

enjoy yer rifle at the matches, and have fun getting to know it and what it likes. it's all good.

User avatar
Ranch 13
PostsCOLON 1584
JoinedCOLON Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 am
LocationCOLON Eastern Wy
CONTACTCOLON

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Ranch 13 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:35 am

What the samhell is a pedersoli slotter?
If you're misspelling sporter, your rifle is fine for bpcr competition, altho with the drop of the stock it will be a bit hard on you shooting from prone, but other than that the only thing keeping you from shooting in a match is yourself.

rfd
PostsCOLON 26
JoinedCOLON Fri May 01, 2015 4:39 pm
LocationCOLON nor'east
CONTACTCOLON

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by rfd » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:47 am

"slotter" - yeah, he musta meant spotter, er, sporter. :D

1874 Sharps Old West Maple

Image

Brent
PostsCOLON 1683
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:12 pm
LocationCOLON the most boring real estate west of Illinois

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by Brent » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:05 am

Ted,
First, I don't think anyone but you and me and now the folks reading this thread have a clue about that rule. No one has ever checked my rifles for it, and I've shot several different crescent plated rifles at matches, including nationals. However, if concerned, put a lace-on buttpad on it and add a few wedges of leather in there to flatten out the curve. I do this with mine just to get a longer Length of pull.

rdf, that's a handsome rifle you posted. The Slotter was a variant of the Sharps, like a Freud, or a Gemmer.
I'm not from here, I just live here.

rfd
PostsCOLON 26
JoinedCOLON Fri May 01, 2015 4:39 pm
LocationCOLON nor'east
CONTACTCOLON

Re: where is bpcr headed?

Post by rfd » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:32 am

yep, a Slotterbeck ...


1874 Sharps Old West Maple

There were several new series of these guns, both following the old time gunsmiths personal initiative and obeying the specific request of the customers. The custom work intended to improve the rifles mechanically, to equip them with new Creedmoor sights, or simply to vary the aesthetics of the rifle with inlays, engravings or customized work to the stock.

The new 1874 Sharps Old West gets the inspiration from a rifle made by Henry Slotterbeck, a gunsmith from Württemberg emigrated to the States around the 1850 who, after having worked for some years for Henry Deringer in Philadelphia, founded the Slotter & Co.

The stock has brass parts for both the “Walnut” and "Maple" versions.

On the right side of the butt stock there is a plate that can be personalized with some engraving of choice. The forend has wedge plates. The pistol grip cap is made of case hardened steel.

BUTTON_POST_REPLY