Lead flakes

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ian45662
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Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:07 pm

i find little lead flakes on my patches when I clean. I don't think it is leading but I am not sure. Do you guys know what could cause it and if I should even worry about it?

Brent
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by Brent » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:14 pm

Wet those flakes and see if they dissolve. Fouling can look metallic.

Brent
I'm not from here, I just live here.

semtav
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by semtav » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:15 pm

What are you using for a cleaning rod ? Using aluminum rods will cause that. Then again, they just may be lead flakes.

ian45662
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:51 pm

Nylon cleaning rod. It is lead ihave looked at it really close

semtav
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by semtav » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:21 am

How long are your cases compared to the chamber? too long or too short of cases may cause that.

ian45662
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:35 am

To be honest with you I have no idea. It is in a trapdoor so I am not sure how I would get a chamber cast from it. I am in the process of stretching some of the brass by shooting smokeless loads out of it so that I may get the cases to 2.105 as mentioned in the book that was written by Pat and Wolf Spence.

shooter37
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by shooter37 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:55 am

If your trapdoor is an original I'd start with a real intensive cleaning of the bore. Most of these old timers have a clean "looking" bore but are moderate to heavy leaded. If you are getting just some flakes and NO bore streaks of lead I'd play with overall length of the cartridge: again, trapdoors have chambers designed to accept rounds when badly fouled so the bullet seating may be a factor.
Last point is to use a bullet that carries a lot of lube.

ian45662
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:34 am

I will try that and see what happens thanks for the advise. It is an original and the bore is good I have cleaned it really good. There is no lead streaking and accuracy is about @ 2MOA so I am pretty sure its not leading.

Uglysauce
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by Uglysauce » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:53 pm

My Springfield rifle has a very abrupt, short throat, and I suppose that could cause that, depending on what type of bullet you are using, and the alloy of your lead, etc. Whatever the problem is, it sounds very minor. It may "go away" after you have shot and cleaned the rifle numerous times.

I suspect that the original bullet design, speaking of the 405 grain, a short nose with lots of taper was designed to keep shooting in a very fouled bore, and that the short throat was to keep the bullet supported in the case, to maintain accuracy.

I've not had a chance to examine the original 500 grain bullet, or the Lyman 500 grain "Government" bullet, but I'd suspect that nose also has a lot of taper, so as not to jam in a fouled bore. ?? I know that in my rifle, anything with a long "bore riding" nose does not work well once the bore fouls.

If the case is not belled enough, it is possible to shave some lead off the bullet when seating it, which can wind up in the grease grooves, and that can show up in the bore as flakes or small bits.

At any rate, those are just my observations, based on my own Springfield rifle. I could be wrong!

Congrats on 2moa. I'm not there yet.

Just my personal opinion, and I wouldn't attempt to argue the point with anyone, but I would never fire smokeless powder in my Springfield, for any purpose. There must be another way to stretch cases, or perhaps you could trim 45-90 cases to your desired length. ??

Sorry, just had to say it. I'll be quiet now. Yeah...I'm one of "those" guys. !!!

Uglysauce.

ian45662
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:15 pm

Well they are on the lighter side of the trapdoor loads At or under the bp pressure loads. I have shot enough to feel safe about doing. It I do weigh every charge as not to kake any mistakes

timberlake
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by timberlake » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:32 pm

2 moa?? Leave the rifle alone. Don't do anything. Those lead flakes don't amount to didley. Mess with the bore at your peril. Put the cleaning rod away....far away. Is the rifle for sale?

TL

ian45662
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:29 am

lol no sir I want to use it for silhouette shooting. I just wondered if the lead flakes were telling me something. I am not going to mess with the rifle as I am more than happy with the groups and all that I was just curious thats all.

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montana_charlie
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by montana_charlie » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:09 pm

ian45662 wroteCOLONTo be honest with you I have no idea. It is in a trapdoor so I am not sure how I would get a chamber cast from it. I am in the process of stretching some of the brass by shooting smokeless loads out of it so that I may get the cases to 2.105 as mentioned in the book that was written by Pat and Wolf Spence.
One way to cast your chamber is to charge a case with 'something' other than powder. It can be molten lead, birdshot, concrete, maybe even hard-packed dirt. Just be careful to fill the case to your normal seating depth.
Seat one of your heaviest bullets, and chamber the 'load'.

Using a large steel rod, with tape rings to protect the bore, smack the nose of that bullet with a couple of swings of a heavy hammer.
When the hammer bounces, the lead slug is fully expanded.

Open the breech and use the rod to gently knock the 'load' out. The imprint of your chamber's front end should be pretty clear.

If your cases actually are shorter than chamber depth, that fact can cause leading. If your leading is the result of short cases, there are tools which mechanically stretch the brass.

But you really need to know what your chamber is like, first...

CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

timberlake
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by timberlake » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:06 pm

If you're really interested in seeing what the chamber looks like on a trapdoor, try this, I've done it and it works:

Explore the amazing camming action of the old warhorse. Get hold of a 45-90 empty case. Anneal it 5/8" down from the case mouth. Use sizing die wax on the case. Insert it into the chamber and close the trapdoor. Eject and wella, a perfect copy of the chamber and part of the rifling. No muss, no fuss.

TL

ian45662
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Re: Lead flakes

Post by ian45662 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:53 pm

Great Idea I will have to try that!!

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