cimarron High Wall

This is the general discussion area for the forums at BPCR.net. Anyone who appreciates and enjoys the classic single shot rifles of the late 1800 period is welcome to take part here. Civility in all postings, and respect for your fellow shooters are the primary expectations of all members. Trolls will be removed from the membership without warning or recourse. The Forum owner has the final, and only, say in who is determined to be a troll. Please try to put your posts in the correct forum. (Example: loading tips and questions in the "Cartridge Loading..." forum.) Postings may be moved by the moderator to correct forums if he determines they can be better placed.
JollyWhiteGiant
PostsCOLON 27
JoinedCOLON Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:28 pm

cimarron High Wall

Post by JollyWhiteGiant » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:25 am

Looking at picking up a Cimarron High Wall in .45-70. Does anyone have any info on these, twist rates how the barrels on them are ect.? I really like the looks and feel of the rifle but know nothing about them. Can they handle higher than trapdoor pressure loadings like the modern Broning and Winchester ones?

User avatar
montana_charlie
PostsCOLON 1413
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:35 pm
LocationCOLON West of Great Falls, Montana

Post by montana_charlie » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:17 am

Cimarron sells guns from a variety of makers. Are you looking at the Uberti rifle...or the Pedersoli?
CM
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

JollyWhiteGiant
PostsCOLON 27
JoinedCOLON Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:28 pm

Post by JollyWhiteGiant » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:31 pm

I do not knwo which one built it. it is the standard sporter high wall rifle
I assume that since Pedersoli just started with these and it is slightly used that it is probably a Uberti rifle.

beltfed
PostsCOLON 275
JoinedCOLON Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:02 pm
LocationCOLON WI

Post by beltfed » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:00 pm

Cimarron has indicated to me that they only handle Uberti made
Hi Walls. They do not at this time intend to handle the new Pedersoli
made Hi Walls.
Only Cherrys fine guns so far has said they are getting in some Ped Hi Walls, But will sell ONLY at Retail so, as a dealer, why should I bother, when one can get a US made Hi Wall from C Sharps for about the same money. Granted there is an attraction for the 12 twist on the Ped 38-55, rather than the Badger attitude - you can have any twist as long as it is.........

Beltfed/Arnie

Hiwall
PostsCOLON 66
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:46 pm
LocationCOLON Central California

Hiwall Rifles

Post by Hiwall » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:17 pm

The C Sharps Hiwall will give you an excellent rifle, made in the USA. This can be very important should something ever go wrong or a part needs replacement. As to the Badger barrels. they are by far the barrels used by the BPCR winning shooters. Also made in the USA with a phone number where you can talk to real people. EXCELLENT!

Hiwall

John Boy

Post by John Boy » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:29 pm

Looking at picking up a Cimarron High Wall in .45-70. Does anyone have any info on these, twist rates how the barrels on them are ect.? I really like the looks and feel of the rifle but know nothing about them. Can they handle higher than trapdoor pressure loadings like the modern Broning and Winchester ones?
Jolly: Cimarron is the US distributor of Uberti HiWalls. They are the standard 1:20 twist, with a maximum rated pressure of 18,000 psi. I have a 449 bore and a 455 groove on mine

Yes, the pressure ranges for '73 Springfields - Browning - Winchester - Uberti and Pedersoli HiWalls are in the same SAAMI MAP range. The '86 Winchester and '95 Marlin have a SAAMI MAP rating of 22,000 psi. The Ruger #1 and #3 have a SAAMI MAP of 40,000 psi (source: Lymans 49th and Dick Trenk for Pedersoli)

Have to ask - why are you concerned with a SAAMI MAP higher than trapdoors? SMOKELESS POWDER loaded to MAX? If you plan to shoot black powder reloads - any 45-70 reload will be safe with the Trapdoor MAP in the Uberti HiWall

Also, you might want to contact Benelli USA and ask them directly about the SAAMI MAP of the Uberti ... (800) 264-4962

JollyWhiteGiant
PostsCOLON 27
JoinedCOLON Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:28 pm

Post by JollyWhiteGiant » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:42 am

as of right now I am shooting only smokeless. I have the stuff to get started in BP but have yet to do so. I have a bunch of .45/70 ammo I had loaded up when I had my Broning High Wall (had to get rid of it when things got tight) loaded a 405 gr lead bullet over IMR 3130 for a velocity of 1500 fps. I do not recall the charge wieght off hand but I want to say it is 40gr.

John Boy

Post by John Boy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:49 am

Jolly: Here are a couple of minimum loading data from Lyman's 49th Reloading Handbook:
Lyman 457193 - 405gr cast - BC 307 - Lyman #2 alloy - COAL - 2.550
4198 ... 31.5gr - 1312fps ... best accuracy
3031 ... 34.0gr - 1161fps (MAX load - 38.5gr - 1352fps)
I like XMP 5744 ... 26.0gr ... 1189fps

Here's what the 5744 powder can do in a '76 Winchester 45-75:
Image

Would be a good idea that you buy a reloading book and Lyman's 49th edition has excellent information for what you need because your 40 gr charge of 3031 is above the maximum powder charge ... which ruin many nice rifles!

JollyWhiteGiant
PostsCOLON 27
JoinedCOLON Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:28 pm

Post by JollyWhiteGiant » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:37 pm

The load was developed for a Browning 1885 High Wall. This is within limits for that rifle. The modern brownings are in the level 3 catigory for loads. This load is in the second level loads IIRC. did not know if the cimmaron can use anything above the trapdoor type loads.

beltfed
PostsCOLON 275
JoinedCOLON Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:02 pm
LocationCOLON WI

Cimarron HI Walls- Ped YES

Post by beltfed » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:07 pm

Correction to my prev post:
I just received word from Cimarron that they will indeed be getting in
some of the Pedersoli Hi Walls, including 38-55, with 12 twist barrel ,etc.
Retail will be close to $2K.
beltfed/Arnie

Boz330
PostsCOLON 33
JoinedCOLON Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:52 am
LocationCOLON Central KY

Post by Boz330 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:43 am

From what I've read the Uberti's can be a crap shoot. With the dollar weak I think you can get by cheaper with a C-Sharps Hi-wall. I've had one for 17 years and am pleased as punch with it. And as Hiwall pointed out they are right here in the good ole US of A.
Check out this link about the Uberti's
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34127
There is also a related link about the problems with this particular rifle and the customer service or lack of it. Something to consider.

Bob

Jonathan B. Bodnar
PostsCOLON 6
JoinedCOLON Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:22 pm

Cimarron High Wall

Post by Jonathan B. Bodnar » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:19 pm

Back in March of 2006 I participated in a thread on the Uberti High Wall, imported by Cimarron Arms and purchased from Buffalo Arms in Idaho. As I stated at the time, my particular rifle turned out to have a twist rate of 1 in 30 inches. This was contrary to the advertised 1 in 20 in twist. I know problems can happen during manufacture, but my problem was with the way Cimarron Arms refused to handle the issue. My remarks, along with those of others, can still be found on this Forum, so I won't elaborate here. Suffice it to say I purchased a Badger barrel, had it chambered to 45-90 caliber by a local gunsmith, and so far I am happy with it. Due to work and other obligations, I haven't worked up "tournament" loads yet, but I am satisfied with the Badger barrel company. They, along with other very helpful American manufacturers of black powder cartridge rifles and the input from this and some other websites, have been very valuable in my education in this pursuit. And I can never say enough about the good folks at Buffalo Arms.

RMulhern
PostsCOLON 322
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:15 pm
LocationCOLON Down South

Uberti or Pedersoli?

Post by RMulhern » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:14 pm

It'd be a cold day in hell before I'd pay $2000.00 for a 'Spagetti Special'!! :shock: :shock:

John Boy

Post by John Boy » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:45 pm

From what I've read the Uberti's can be a crap shoot.
Bob, I've heard the same and gonna say - I am one of the lucky ones with a 38-55. My 45-70 doesn't have the same quality wood but it makes it to 1000 also

Using Saeco 571's (42gr Meteor Fg sifted) and (45gr FFg Meteor sifted) managed to hit Homer at Ridgway (1000yds) one time each. Did well on the pigs also.

And the best part, here's the wood:
Image

Image
Last edited by 2 on John Boy, edited 0 times in total.

John Boy

Post by John Boy » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:45 pm

Double hit - Deleted
Last edited by 1 on John Boy, edited 0 times in total.

BUTTON_POST_REPLY