Tin can optimization

This is the general discussion area for the forums at BPCR.net. Anyone who appreciates and enjoys the classic single shot rifles of the late 1800 period is welcome to take part here. Civility in all postings, and respect for your fellow shooters are the primary expectations of all members. Trolls will be removed from the membership without warning or recourse. The Forum owner has the final, and only, say in who is determined to be a troll. Please try to put your posts in the correct forum. (Example: loading tips and questions in the "Cartridge Loading..." forum.) Postings may be moved by the moderator to correct forums if he determines they can be better placed.
Brent
PostsCOLON 1683
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:12 pm
LocationCOLON the most boring real estate west of Illinois

Tin can optimization

Post by Brent » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:46 pm

I'm going to make a run at the tin can game this year. I've shot a few before but never a regulation match. This time, it will be different. That said, I was thinking about my various rifles - none of which are quite perfect by most tin can standards but one of them will have to do.

The 77 .45-90 is too heavy, so that's a Creedmoor only gun.
The 74 .45-100 has a mile of drop and it is light but it might work.
The Ballard Pacific is original and the barrel might not hack it.
The Highwall is a .38-72x14 twist and might not throw heavy enough bullets and the rifle with its #2 barrel is even lighter than the 74.

Of the three, I will probably campaign the wall. My thoughts are that I can get behind almost any gun adequately well to shoot prone, but I cannot shoot the Sharps offhand nearly was well as I can shoot the wall. So will the wall's light caliber and 320 gr bullets cost me more rams than than the Sharps .45-100 will cost me chickens? I don't think so. The wall has a hooked buttplate and a slender grip that works well for me offhand. The Sharps has a clunky fat wrist and the hooked plate has to be covered up with a leather pad to get the length I need to keep my face from being beaten to a pulp by my thumb, so it hangs poorly at a best. It is a terrible offhand rifle for me.

Does anyone else optimize their choice of rifles around the offhand part instead of the prone stick work? Yes, I know there are 3 times as many prone targets as offhand, but I can't see rifle fit being nearly as important prone as offhand.

Any one have any opinions?

Brent

Jubilado
PostsCOLON 105
JoinedCOLON Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:17 pm

Post by Jubilado » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:16 pm

I'd lean toward your wall, if you are comfortable with it and its accuracy.

Re your second to last paragraph, regardless of what others may do about optimizing around offhand, and I don't have specific info about such trends, YOU should focus on the offhand (chicken), because you are a strong offhand shooter.

JMO, of course.

Paul

Jubilado
PostsCOLON 105
JoinedCOLON Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:17 pm

Post by Jubilado » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:23 pm

Uh oh, I may have jumped the gun. Not like it's the first time I've ever done that!

I just re-read your post. The hooked buttplate may not meet the BPCR Silhouette rules. Better check it out.

At the Nationals they are VERY sticky about rules. Raton is not the place to find out whether your equipment is legal.

Paul

Brent
PostsCOLON 1683
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:12 pm
LocationCOLON the most boring real estate west of Illinois

Post by Brent » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:34 am

Paul, I probably should not have called it hooked. It's a standard crescent butt - original to the winchester highwall. I presume an all original highwall sporting rifle should be legal.

Brent

gussy
PostsCOLON 200
JoinedCOLON Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:09 pm
LocationCOLON NW
CONTACTCOLON

Post by gussy » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:17 am

Good grief man, what better reason could you have for getting another rifle?? :lol: :lol:
Gus

Brent
PostsCOLON 1683
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:12 pm
LocationCOLON the most boring real estate west of Illinois

Post by Brent » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:39 am

gus,
another rifle is always fun, but frankly, I have enough - for now. (Did I really say that???)

Anyway, the question would still stand. What would be best. Most folks seem to want very little drop like the Shiloh #1. That's fine off the sticks at 500 m but sucks for offhand in my opinion. Ditto with the love fest over the shotgun buttplate. Seems like everyone designs their rifle with the idea of giving up on chickens.

Brent

gussy
PostsCOLON 200
JoinedCOLON Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:09 pm
LocationCOLON NW
CONTACTCOLON

Post by gussy » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 am

You didn't say what triggers the hiwall has.

I like hiwalls. I shoot the Lyman 330 grain out of my 15 twist roller to 1000 yds. That is with 55 gr 2F express. You should have no problem with a custom moulded heavy bullet at the rams. With that case capacity it should be a winner. Lighter loads for the rest.

Should be easy kills on the shorter range stuff. All that said, I have NOT shot tin cans, only long range (no tin cans around here to shoot, nearest is 5 hour drive) :oops: I drive 3 hours to shoot long range. :roll:

Brent
PostsCOLON 1683
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:12 pm
LocationCOLON the most boring real estate west of Illinois

Post by Brent » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:05 am

The wall has a single set trigger.

I don't have tin cans available here either. So knockdown could be an issue. Just won't know until I do it. But I'm figuring 320 grs, 1350 fps with a high bc to carry that velocity to 500 m as efficiently as possible.

Brent

User avatar
13Echo
PostsCOLON 78
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:00 pm
LocationCOLON Monroe, Louisiana

Post by 13Echo » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

I have a post saved somewhere from Steve Garbe about the .38-55 he had been using successfully for silhouette. I hear about the lighter 38 bullets ringing the rams but Garbe seems to have been satisfied. I can dig it out and send to you if you like. If the 38-55 works for him your 38-72 aught to work for you, at least to get started. As for the rifle with excessive stock drop consider a lace on cheekpiece. If it makes weight it should do.

Jerry Liles

Ironramrod
PostsCOLON 97
JoinedCOLON Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:36 pm
LocationCOLON Roughrider country

Post by Ironramrod » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:08 pm

Brent,

I suspect you will do fine in BPCRS with your .38/72. One of the local guys here shoots the matches with his .38/55 and stuff seems to fall over ok, when he hits it. I've spotted for him quite a few times, and I don't think he has ever rung anything he hit as near as I could tell at least when I was spotting for him. The biggest problem around here is the wind; serious wind, but that's a problem all the shooters have to deal with regardless of caliber. I don't shoot all that many matches, but I can't remember being in one yet where the winds were less than 30 mph with gusts higher.

Re: practice my all time favorite place to get some good practice (other than the range) is a summer fallow field with a bunch of rocks of various sizes at all kinds of distances with nothing behind it for a couple of miles. If you have something like that in your area, you can learn a lot about silhouette by spending some time shooting in a place like that even without access to a regulation silhouette range. Prairie dog towns are no slouch either, but I don't suppose you have many of those in your area, huh?

Regards

beltfed
PostsCOLON 275
JoinedCOLON Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:02 pm
LocationCOLON WI

tin cans shooting choices

Post by beltfed » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:14 am

Brent,
1. seems to me the choice should be your 38-72 with an elliptical nosed 330-340 gr bullet.
The 14 twist should stabilize that length.

One comment. This thing about high cheekpieces being poor for offhand.

Take a look at hi power, and smallbore rifles used by the national champions. Tubb rifles, ARs, etc.
They all have very high cheekpieces relative to our sport. And the shooters do just fine with them. The service rifle shooters must use the AR
"as is" with relatively high cheekpiece AND butt with little drop.
BUT, its the height of the buttplate for offhand vs the other positions that can help for offhand:
where it is legal in a match rifle they all have adjustable buttplates that can be "dropped" so that they can have a more elevated head/straighter neck position in the offhand position. Then, for sitting and prone they run the buttplate high, to get a really low gun position.

For our sport, we cannot use an adjustable buttplate, so I would go with the relatively high cheek, straighter butt Highwall for overall best results on 3/4ths of the targets.
One more thing you might try is to find a Pope lever for the Highwall.
It will help for offhand, and should not be a problem for prone off sticks
beltfed/Arnie

Brent
PostsCOLON 1683
JoinedCOLON Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:12 pm
LocationCOLON the most boring real estate west of Illinois

Post by Brent » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:17 am

Arnie, I think you are right on the .38-72. Just gotta make it shoot. We shall see. My 4e bullet may be good, may not be. But it's what I have got right now.

I forgot to comment on the high cheek - in the highpower/AR game - with which I'm not very familiar, those guys are using scopes and have a whole 'nother geometry to work with.

Maybe it is just me, I know I have some unusual preferences in rifle set up, but I do think that too little drop is a common issue in bpc rifles when used for offhand at short ranges like 200 m. Of course, too much drop comes back to bite ya at 500 m and beyond.

Brent

BUTTON_POST_REPLY