40-65 smokless loads

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Doubled
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Post by Doubled » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:28 pm

Gomez,

Bet it was RL15. In the 577/450 case I use about 40% case capacity with RL15 and RL7. When temperatures are below 50 degrees I get hang fires and misfires unless fillers like your foam plugs or in my case 8 grains of Kapok are used to keep the powder up in front of the flash hole. Magnum primer don't help...so I'll bet it was a special hot primer. 5744 also hang fires and misfires at the lower temepratures without fillers despite what Accurate says.

I just feel so much safer using blackpowder in this gun. Shoots better, easier to clean up, easier to load for and a heck of a lot more fun.
DD

Ray Newman
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Post by Ray Newman » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:06 am

I just wish that one of the powder companies would re-introduce the case filling, BP velocity & pressure equivalent semi-smokeless powders of the late 19th-early 2oth centuries.

I have a feeling that there is a market out there for such a product. It would give the BPCR sport a boost as it would get more of the older rifles back on the line.

As much as I enjoy BP, there are times when I tired of the attention required to reload & the case clean up. Sometimes, I do wish a BPCR was more like smokeless: prime, charge the case, seat the bullet, shoot....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah
WA St F.E.S.

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Gomez
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Post by Gomez » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:25 pm

Ray,

First let me say that I agree with your post whole heartedly. Maybe we should start a petition drive to the powder manufacturers for such a product.

But, my dear fellow, I'm very concerned for your safety saying such things in public. I once foolishly offered on the Shiloh forum that Goex's Pinnacle should be allowed in BPCR – given that Pyrodex is - which garnered me a roto-rooter colonoscopy, with prejudice! Them mountain boys only let up while they were looking for a rope. I escaped with a ruptured ego, lacerated self esteem and a badly bruised self image. It took three weeks and half a case of good bourbon to heal.

Not to put too fine a point on it, it’s a good idea but, shall I say, unpopular with the militant purists amongst us.

Love BP, but then I never met a powder I didn’t like,

Best Regards, and Damn All Chickens,

Rob Dorsey
http://OldGringo.us

Ray Newman
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Post by Ray Newman » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:51 pm

Gomez:

You posted you wanted BP substitutes allowed in competition.

I'm not proposing that @ all....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah
WA St F.E.S.

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Gomez
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Post by Gomez » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:10 pm

Ray,

Yes, again you are exactly right. I was way out of line with that post but here's how it happened.

As I've said, I've been shoot BP for 45 years but not in competition. I'm just not a very competitive person but now find BPCR Silhouette a ball of fun and the Friendship and Ashland bunch as great a group of folks to hang out with while making smoke and noise as exists across these United States of Wide America.

In studying the rules, I was struck by the provision that Pyrodex was legal but not any of the other BP replicas. So, being a proactive kind of guy (note: Websters lists "proactive" also as “assertive, pushy, domineering, outspoken, bold, activist” none very attractive I must say. ) I went directly to the source and called the NRA. I was put into the BPCR representative, a nice young fellow named John, and told him that I didn’t get it. “Why was only Pyrodex allowed?” I asked if NRA was intentionally promoting Hodgdon Powder Co. to the disadvantage of other, arguably equally worthy manufacturers.

John allowed as that was not the fact and suggested that I put it to the upcoming NRA Silhouette Committee meeting, just 5 days hence. Time was a’wastin so I penned the proposal, voicing it as a suggestion that other, perhaps better, BP replica powders (Pinnacle for instance) if Pyrodex was. Fact is, I shoot black. I don’t like Pyrodex and have had it misfire in my smoke pole with a whitetail in the sights. Black powder has never let me down..

Anyway, had I had more time, I would have canvassed the BP community for their input before submitting any proposal. I never imagined that the committee would act on the proposal, it’s Black Powder Silhouette after all, but did think that the proposal might make them rethink the Pyrodex thing.

Concerned about the lack of consensus, I put it on the Shiloh forum and found, with some certainty it seems, that the BPCR community was not only not in favor of allowing replica BPs in Silhouette but were willing to express that opinion quite vigorously not to mention profanely.

I, of course, immediately withdrew the proposal from NRA, not because of the flogging I got but because it was an ill-conceived, dumb idea. If there had been more time to test the wind I might have spared myself some flames. As it was, I didn’t.

Bad idea, sorry it happened. It’s a prime example of rushing to act without due diligence. However, that does not justify the vile way in which some on that forum addressed me. If we’d been in a bar, I wonder if they would have spoken to me in quite the same way?

Anyway, writing the proposal absent good counsel was a monumentally stupid idea. But, it’s off the fantail and disappearing in the wake, we’ve moved on with no permanent harm done, thank goodness, and on the bright side; I’ve learned to hate chickens!

Best,
Rob Dorsey
http://OldGringo.us

Ray Newman
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Post by Ray Newman » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:40 pm

You don't have to repeat the scenario to me.

I was one of the 1st responders to that thread, which has disappeared from the Shiloh site. & as I recall, not all the responses were presented "profanely".

In my response, I presented a counter argument that the substitutes don't leave the same fouling as BP & Pyrodex.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah
WA St F.E.S.

Kelley O. Roos
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Post by Kelley O. Roos » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:43 pm

Gomez,

If you had been in bar you'd have been treated much worse :wink: believe me :shock:

As for your,"it's off the fantail and disappearing in the wake" remark, not so, as you brought this, "Pinnacle" issue up again with your post prior to your last remarks.

I like chickens, makes for better shooting :shock:

Kelley O.

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Gomez
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Post by Gomez » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:21 pm

Ray,

Again you are right, not all were profane. I appreciate all those that were intended in a positive way, as was mine. I just find it remarkable that, given my explanations and open apologies, so many seem to bear the grudge. It's remarkable, and sad.

Kelly O. Roos,

You prove that kicking the dirt brings out the worms. You are an angry and pitiful little man. Were it not for my contempt I could almost feel sorry for you.

I really like the people I meet at Silhouette shoots here. Most of them realize the fact that this is just a hobby, a pastime and nothing more. My observation is that the dinizens of these forums don't. They are often trying to prove something and take themseles way too seriously.

Me, I'll just continue shooting and improving and enjoying it. But I can do without these forums. As a practical matter, I've not read anything here I didn't already know. And, on a personal level, I've got better things to do and better people to do them with.

Happy Trails,
RD

Ray Newman
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Post by Ray Newman » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:59 pm

"But I can do without these forums. As a practical matter, I've not read anything here I didn't already know."
--Gomez

So if that's the case, why are you posting & reading the threads?

On Shiloh, you asked questions pertaining to: sight inserts, cleaning, & case length effect on accuracy. Here you also asked about case length & sight settings for rim fire silhouette

As I've heard a few lawyers state, "Would care to reconsider your last statement."

You also posted the same thing -- "I'll leave your little obscure forum...." -- over on Shiloh during the brouhaha about the BP substitute thread.

But, you still post there (& here)....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah
WA St F.E.S.

Kelley O. Roos
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Post by Kelley O. Roos » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:38 am

Gomez or what ever you are,

I didn't bring this up, you did. It's like you wish a fight. :? Pitifull; look in the mirror.

As far as your forty five years in BP it's failing to show up in your posts.

To bad we weren't facing each other :wink:

Kelley O.

Red Logan
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Post by Red Logan » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:22 am

An the global warming gets worse,

I waz hoping for more info on loading, not a match of witz, or the lack of..

Ironramrod
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Post by Ironramrod » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:36 am

Red L.,

A good friend of mine shoots AA2495 in his Browning 1885 highwall .40/65, and it shoots very well for him out to 300 m that I know about. At the moment I can't remember the overall composition of his loads, but I can find that out for you if you are interested.

Regards

Red Logan
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Post by Red Logan » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:41 am

Ironramrod many thankx I'll bee lookin for your reply..

Ironramrod
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Post by Ironramrod » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:46 pm

Red L.,

Getting back to you on the .40/65 load info. My friend uses 34 gr. of AA 2495BR powder, WLR primers and a 400 gr. RCBS cast bullet, and reformed WW .45/70 brass and no wads or fillers. He said it consistently shoots 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100 yds, and he can clean all the 300 m pigs off the rail on a decent day with this load. He has used it some for hunting and shot a couple of coyotes he called in and 1 antelope. He also indicated that every load he tried over 34 gr. up to the max of 37 gr. shot worse groups, and that the 34 gr. load was hands down the best one.

Also, FYI I shoot a fair amount of H4198 in a .45/70 Browning 1885 Hiwall and a 405 gr. LBT LFN cast bullet with a chase patch, and this combination shoots really well, too. I couldn't find any H4198 loads for a .40/65, but if you can locate some info that may also be another good smokeless option for you to try.

Regards

Red Logan
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Post by Red Logan » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:13 pm

thankx ramrod

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