40-65 smokless loads

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Red Logan
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40-65 smokless loads

Post by Red Logan » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:43 pm

any help out here on smokless loads for a new hi wall browning??? need some place to start...

crossfireoops
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Oh NO

Post by crossfireoops » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:54 pm

Image

GTC

Red Logan
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Post by Red Logan » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:38 pm

not realy the responce I was lookin for but thankx anyway..

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Ranch 13
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Post by Ranch 13 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:42 pm

Might try 23 grs of 5744 with a 400 gr bullet that's about .002 over groove diameter of your barrel.

5744 does a pretty fair job of duplicating bp ballistics with lead bullets .

crossfireoops
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OOPS

Post by crossfireoops » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:55 pm

"not realy the responce I was lookin for but thankx anyway.."

No offence meant, ....hope to much taken,

Maybe we need a "White Powder" forum?

Loading with black is fairly straightfoward,.....I'm not trying to oversimplify the art and science of so-doing.

Loading smokeless runs a gamut, a long and Very complex area of study.
You can be assured that outsidea' dumb stunts with 4FG, you're safe with any BP load, in your very strong replica gun.

This is NOT the case with Smokeless..............there's literally 100s of approaches, ranging from ridiculous miniscule charges of too-fast powders, to 20mm cannon "Teardown ./ pull-down" powders.

A-5744 dittos, albeit really dirty.

GTC

deerhuntsheatmeup
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...

Post by deerhuntsheatmeup » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:35 pm

Sir,

Try a charge of 11-12 grains Trailboss. I would also recommend a Lyman Snover bullet loaded and shot as cast.

Goof Luck!

Barvid

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Gomez
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Post by Gomez » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:45 am

Red,

Most of us have been through this at one time or another. It's very tempting to try to introduce smokeless into these early BP cartridges for obvious reasons; there's lots of good cheap bullets available, the perceived pressure of much more difficult cleanup, paradigm of loading smokeless and the belief that somehow modern powders are naturally superior to 19th century technology. Trouble is, for all the above, "it ain't necessarily so."

Admittedly, both the 45/70 and 40/65 lend themselves quite well to smokeless loads, PROVIDED that a suitable action is employed which is strong enough to shoot them.

Get a copy of Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" and notice that Col Waters went to the extreme of listing actions in groups. On the bottom are such actions as the trapdoor Springfield, including replicas, which should not be shot with any smokeless load greater than factory 45/70 loads. At the top are such guns as the Ruger #1 and Browning 1885 "Traditional Hunter" which can take 54gr of 3031 or RL15 and push a Hornady 350gr RNSP (great bullet in the 45/70) at 2,000+ FPS.

I'll bet the 40/65 can top that, IN THE RIGHT RIFLE. I've killed many whitetales with a "pumped" 45/70 - it's one of my favorite deer cartridges here in the dense woods of 'ol Kentuk - but I shoot a Browning 1885 or a Marlin 1895 lever gun with these loads. But, I also shoot an original Winchester 1886 in 45/70 with BP and 405gr FN lead bullets. BP works just as well in the woods as it does at the range. If you are a muzzel loader shooter and hunter, and if you're not your missing some of the best that hunting has to offer, then you know the great satisfaction of taking a single shot smoke pole into the woods, making some smoke (and sparks if you're cool enough to use flint) and dragging out 110 pounds of roasts, chops and sausage! Make that 700# of it's an elk. Using a BP cartridge rifle is just as good. I only wish that our "learned" legislators would allow it in primitive or BP season.

The rifles which have been proven to safely shoot smokeless loads in the 45/70 and others are well known. But, I don't know about yours. Your replica BPCR rifle is, to my knowlege, as strong as most of the crop of new replicas but I believe it's marked "black powder only" as is my 45/90 BPCR. I can only assume, despite the similarity to the Browning 1885, that - call me crazy - the caveat was stamped into the barrel for a reason.

Point of this rant is: BE CAREFUL! BP works. Smokeless may work, if you know exactly what you are doing. If you don't but decide to proceed anyway, at least ask yourself in what part of your anatomy (finger or fingers, hand, eye, frontal lobe, ect.) you are willing to sacrifice to the experiment.

Sorry about the preachy lecture, Gook Luck, and, oh yeah, BE CAREFUL!
RD
http://OldGringo.us

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Post by Ranch 13 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:53 am

I could be wrong but , I'm thinking any of the powder company load data for the 40-65 will be held to bp pressures. No series of "levels" of loads like we have to sort thru with the 45-70

Red Logan
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Post by Red Logan » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:10 am

Gomez and others, many thankx for comments. with that said I am no newcommer to reloading, started in 1954, and seem to be very careful even when using published loads.
The rifle I am working up loads for is a browning 1885 bprc, and is made by the folks in Japan, which is just like my 32-40- 38-55 and 45-70.
As soon as the weather is good enough to take out the cronograph and set up my tables and such I have 6 different loads to test, using imr 3031, imr 4198, 1mr 4895, trailboss, and yes even a lite load on uniq..
I have found that the reason for the stamping black powder only is that no sammi specks have been derived for labs to test these rifles, so I will start very slow and work up to a load that produces the best group, and still be with a safe range.
As time progersses maybe next year will go back to Colo for family and some land business, will make a trip to Raton to see old freinds and shoot a bp match, ,,, and maybe even take some game on the old family land.. again many thankx, Red ..

DRCook
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Post by DRCook » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:13 am

that is the most hilarious picture i have seen in a long time. thanks for making my day

crossfireoops
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Pic

Post by crossfireoops » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:42 am

The Devil :twisted: made me post that.

I will now pray for forgiveness :oops:

GTC 8)

DRCook
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Post by DRCook » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:52 am

I think, if you don't mind, that we should start a custom of using that picture, do you mind if I use it ?

dave

crossfireoops
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Oh Chit pic

Post by crossfireoops » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:28 pm

....The Oh Chit pic. ,

DRC, I figure that's public domain.

"not realy the responce I was lookin for but thankx anyway.."

"I am no newcommer to reloading, started in 1954, and seem to be very careful even when using published loads. " :shock:

DOAHhhhhh,

My question would be,.... Than what was the point of this post / excercise, ....in the first place? :?:

Use that pic in good health, and all blessings. :D

GTC 8)

Ray Newman
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Post by Ray Newman » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:22 am

Red Logan: for a few years, I shot Accurate Arms XMP5744 in my Browning .40-65 BPCR.

IIRC, the charge that I loaded w/ -- somewhere between 22.5 - 23.0 grains -- just 'bout filled the case.

I utilized the loading data from the Accurate Arms on-line reloading manual:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerC ... %20358.pdf

If you have any concerns about this load data, give them a call??....
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah
WA St F.E.S.

DRCook
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Post by DRCook » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:48 am

Public domain yes, your idea to use it here yes. Thats why I asked. You had the good taste to use humor to express an opinion and I thought that picture would be appropriate to use here, and the shiloh board, over on msn etc in situations.

so actually it was your idea i was wanting to use

I found the website where the pic is. its about the funniest one there

dave

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