The much maligned .43 Spanish....

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Ray Newman
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The much maligned .43 Spanish....

Post by Ray Newman » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:41 pm

Doing some research on the .43 Spanish. The other day, I looked @ myArgentine RB .43 in the safe & have been thinking 'bout it for the last 2-3 days.

I need to slug bore & do a chamber cast.

The .43 is very similar to the .44-77 Rem. For the life of me I can't find the twist for the .44-77. Any one know it?

My sources say the .43 has a twist of 1:20 & shoots a 380 (approx.) bullet.

W/ a twist of 1:20, I wuz wondering if a heavier bullet would work better in the .43? Seems to me that I read that the .44-77 likes a heavier bullet--470-480 grns?

Or, as usual, am I all wet on this one?
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Ranch 13
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Post by Ranch 13 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:07 pm

According to an old Ideal handbook I have the minimum groove was .439 max was.440 and the twist was 20.
The only mold they list for it threw a 387 gr bullet, and the 44-77 would throw either 470 or 490 gr.
Don't know if that helps or not :roll:

bpsteve
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Post by bpsteve » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:58 am

Ray,
I have a Lyman mould for my .43 that casts a 389 gr. bullet and the dia is .434 on the nose and .443 on the drive bands. (25-1)
The mould # is 439186. What is different about this mould is the base of the mould is tapered which leaves a pronounced bevel on the base of the bullet. Don't know how well it will shoot but it should be real easy to seat in the case!
Steve R

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Post by Plainbase » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:49 am

FWIW, my Peabody prefers the Lyman 446110 at .446(!). I never had much luck with 439186 in either of two Argentine RB's I had. I would now attribute this to being a bit undersized. For cheap brass, if your extractor will grab them, .348 Win with a wrap of adhesive tape around the head works as good as anything. I had a stock of Berdan primers and was shooting the original military cases as well as the old turned CCC's. When I started using the Peabody for Cowboy Silhouette I picked up a supply of modern brass from Midway.
Plainbase

njmj
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Post by njmj » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:18 pm

Ray,
My Argentine roller looks more like an 11MM mauser. Bore dia. is .446 and rim thickness is .093. The rifle shot like crap using .348 Win Brass and the Lyman 439186. Now brass is made out of .458 Win Mag and used the Lyman 446110. Still not a target rifle but flattens pigs with ease. Chamber in it is about a 1/4" longer than the .348 brass which makes it around 2 1/2". Beltshad to be turned off and brass rings soldered on for rims. Someone said "e" clips could be used for rims. I bought the closest size I could find but they need to be open up a bit to fit in the extractor groove. Most any of the belted magnum family can be used but the 7MM Rem Mag comes up a little short and the smaller bore sizes must be blown out. NJMJ
Imagine all the possibilities

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Post by crazeyiven » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:24 am

Ray-

To answer your question, the twist is 1/20. Croft Barker makes notes of it in his book, in the load section. It was for an Argentine Model 1879, 36" barrel, 1/20 twist.

I got into this on the Shiloh site a couple of months back. You might check on the link and see if there is anything you can use....the posts ended up over 4 pages.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewt ... 43+spanish

StevenJay1 was a tremendous help in those posts.

Might read through that.

Aside from being a really nice guy, Steve's main contribution in getting my 43 spanish to shoot was lengthing the brass about a 1/4 inch. There appears to be a "throat" at the end of the chamber of a lot of 43 Spanish rolling blocks. Lengthing the brass picks up that extra space and helps accuracy big time. We used 44 basic brass from Buffalo Arms.

Mine went from not hitting the target at 100 yrds to 8" at 100 yrds. My bore is about .443. The Lyman bullet noted in this thread casts for me in 1/20 at .441. Have ordered some 1/40 alloy to help with expansion of the bullet, going to try again. MLV recommends 1/40, Croft Barker in his book "Shooting the 43 Spanish" used 1/30.

After lengthing the brass and fire forming, the case holds ~ 90 grs of 2f powder w/ a .030 veggie wad.

The only bullets that I have found available without special order is the one by Lyman and there is also one by RCBS. Have both. Like the Lyman best. MLV said he got better luck with the RCBS. Currently working on seeing is the rifle will chamber a case with a .444 bullet. If it will, may get the 44-70 bullet (.446) and size it down.

Hope this helps.
Thanks,

David

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Post by Stevenjay1 » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:17 pm

David, Thank you for the kind words. I got your email the other day but as usual I've been running around like a chicken with my head cut off! I'll be in touch. I just placed an order for a new mould for a 460 grain bullet to use in the .43 Spanish. With a 30:1 mix these will drop from the mould at .445". The bullet has deep grease grooves and will size down to .440 without a problem. I also plan to use the bullet in my .43 Mauser rifles and with the soft mix I expect they will bump up and be very accurate. Time and testing will tell. I love this stuff!! Steve

Oh Duh! Forgot to mention that I really ordered this bullet to use in my 44/77 Sharps but I'm trying it in other rifles as well.
Just another homesick Texan that shouldn't of left in the first place!

crazeyiven
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Post by crazeyiven » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:10 pm

Hi Steve-

Glad to hear you're busy. Much better that the reverse.

Let me know how those new bullets work in the 43 spanish. If they drop at .445 and my bore is .443, its only .001 to size! If it works good for you, I may have to order one of those moulds too. By the way, who made it?

Has the new mould put the 44-40 on the back burner? I love the unusual. Your 44-40 looks like it will be fun.
Thanks,

David

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Post by bernie dodd » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:22 am

if you wont brass . bertram bullet co here in australia dose .43 spanish his email is bbertram@bigpond.com. his brass is top qualty.
bernie :D

Stevenjay1
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Post by Stevenjay1 » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:25 am

Hi Crazyiven, The new mould is in addition to the 44-40. The new mould will be made by Paul Jones and I increased the size from .445 to .446. The 44-40 has done well at the range and really shows its stuff with black powder. I have tried Unique, 2400 and trailboss. I was disappointed with Trailboss. It didn't reach the velocity I was looking for and made a funny sound when fired, like pooff if you can pronounce that. The next step for the 44-40 is sights. The front will be a Beech combo sight and a short range tang sight for the rear. Steve
Just another homesick Texan that shouldn't of left in the first place!

steveu
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Re: The much maligned .43 Spanish....

Post by steveu » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:11 pm

I know that this is an old thread but this is what I shot @ 100 yards.

Cheers,
Steve
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Brent
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Re: The much maligned .43 Spanish....

Post by Brent » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:04 am

Nice shooting! I've never seen a .43 that had a decent bore, but apparently, you have one.
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Plainbase
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Re: The much maligned .43 Spanish....

Post by Plainbase » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:33 am

Model 1879 Argentine rolling blocks made by Remington can be had in near new condition even though they went through an unnecessary Argentine refurb before being exported. They do have a long freebore. I had Bernie Rowles of Old West Molds make me a slightly heavier bullet with a long shank that could reach the rifling and still be in the case.
Plainbase

steveu
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Re: The much maligned .43 Spanish....

Post by steveu » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:51 pm

Plainbase wroteCOLON
Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:33 am
I had Bernie Rowles of Old West Molds make me a slightly heavier bullet with a long shank that could reach the rifling and still be in the case.
Do you have any info on the design of that mould? A picture of the bullet?

Steveu

Plainbase
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Re: The much maligned .43 Spanish....

Post by Plainbase » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:35 pm

You're going to have to ask Bernie, he may remember making it. It's been a while and the mould left with the rifle. In the meanwhile, I'll look around to see if I possibly have a bullet from it. It would be like the one he has for the 11mm but maybe with an additional band and a fatter nose. I'll write him and prime him that you will be asking about it.
Plainbase

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