Tuning double set triggers

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Rantheman
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Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:08 pm

First time here but no doubt in my mind someone will be able to answer most any question I have. I have been wanting a sharps 45-70 since my twenties , almost 50 years ago, but just never seemed to get around to it. Several years back I quit with the modern ,scoped, kill everything, ultra fast rifles. Started out with a scoped knight disc but anybody can shoot with a scope. Then 3 years back I decided I had killed enough and just shooting was fun. Got a couple of Kentucky rifles and had fun but blade and notch sights became a chore for 70 year old eyes. Then I discovered an H&R buffalo classic and I am hooked. Then I ordered a creedmore vernier type sight and could not believe how a peep makes a difference. I found a tutorial on YouTube that showed how to tune trigger on my BC and it is doing me well out to 500. Needless to say, had to have a sharps, can not afford the real thing and the ones made in Montana are out of my reach but I just got hold of a Taylors, Friday last. Damn , did not mean to meander, my question is, do you polish the hammer sear just like you would on any others to smooth it up. Trigger pull is horrendous , maybe 20 lbs or more. The front trigger adjustment screw is missing, got one ordered , but I can not see where the double set is going to help with that. Tore it down but decided against any polishing until screw arrives. I never tried double set before so I was wondering if any advice was out there

Brent
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Brent » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:46 pm

I was hoping someone more qualified would say something, but in a nutshell, don't do anything to the sears until you have that spring in there. It is quite possible that it will be strong enough to drive the sear off the tumbler and allow the lock to fire. If not, THEN try stoning - maybe. But see how that spring helps first. I think it will.

Good luck and let us know how you fare with it.

Brent
I'm not from here, I just live here.

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:58 pm

Thanks Brent. I have put it back together and am waiting on parts and a mainspring vise. If keep on fooling with it gonna muck something up. I put my fish scale trigger puller on it and it was 16 lbs. I found this scale I rigged up to be pretty darn close. Guess I was expecting a tack driver but looks like it may have to go to a real gunsmith

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montana_charlie
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by montana_charlie » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:28 am

Rantheman wroteCOLONTrigger pull is horrendous , maybe 20 lbs or more. The front trigger adjustment screw is missing, got one ordered , but I can not see where the double set is going to help with that.
Brent wroteCOLONin a nutshell, don't do anything to the sears until you have that spring in there.
Rantheman wroteCOLONThanks Brent. I have put it back together and am waiting on parts and a mainspring vise.
I am confused.
Are you missing a "front trigger screw", or a "spring"?

Do you have an owner's manual for that rifle which explains the function of the trigger mechanism?
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:41 pm

A miscommunication. What is missing is the front regulating screw ( the one that determines length of trigger travel of front trigger). I have both ordered as well as a mainspring vise because it appears I am going to have to polish sear and tumbler to get any kind of decent trigger pull. I am a little surprised/disappointed because I thought double set trigger got the front one to a "hair" trigger. It just seems that something is not right with this one. When proper screws get here I will see if that helps. No I do not have a manual but found a download on gun digest on disassembly so I broke it down and got a good feel for it. If I can not fix it I guess I pack it up and send it to a real gunsmith

Brent
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Brent » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:46 pm

I think I am the one confused, but that said, the "frog hair" is, indeed, what the set triggers are all about. If yours is truly 20# then, either you are not setting it (by pulling the rear trigger first (hard and until you hear or feel it click). When the triggers are properly set, the front trigger will not be loose in its moaring, but rather tight because it is now engaged with the rear trigger mechanism. But only the frog-hair touch will cause the front trigger to let go. The screw what sits between the triggers is what adjusts this engagement (I assume this is what you mean by the "front regulating screw". You must have it properly adjusted for the triggers to work correctly. Until you do, then do not believe anything about the triggers being in good conditions or not, and do not mess with sears until you know exactly what is supposed to happen.
I'm not from here, I just live here.

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:55 pm

Amen brother Brent. That is why I put it back together and put it away because I am about to have a fit to fiddle with it. Just got mails from brownells and Taylors that parts have been shipped and then I will know more. Should have the parts by weekend and I know better than to try to rig it, but, my impatience has caused more than one uh oh! Of course, having correct parts does not guarantee I will not mess it up but hopefully that will solve problem. I am taking your advice to heart and just going to stifle the urge. Thanks!

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:00 pm

I wrote "front regulating screw" because that was how it was listed on Taylors parts page. Had a devil of a time figuring out what that meant, took several times to find it, but I think that's the right item. Only cost $4 and that is Murphy's law for sure, little bitty things cause the big problems

Brent
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Brent » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:13 pm

I'll be out of touch on Friday for at least 10 days. Blissfully out of reach of electronics. But basically, pull the set trigger (rear trigger) hard until it clicks then turn in the screw until it causes the triggers to fire. BAck the screw out 1/2 turn and you should be good to go. Or at least that is how I remember it working. Been a while.

Good luck
I'm not from here, I just live here.

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montana_charlie
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by montana_charlie » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:17 am

To begin, always do your dry firing of the double set trigger mechanism with the hammer in the full down position.
Putting it in the half cock notch makes it immovable, and will cause excess battering, or breakage, of the sear and rear trigger.

Testing with the hammer at full cock is fine, but provide something to absorb hammer force as it falls.

Here is a link to the Taylors instruction manual for their Sharps rifle ... in case what you have already is from a different source.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/media/si ... manual.pdf

On Page 10, it tells you about the set trigger use, and adjustment.
The 'front screw' on your gun (the missing one) adjusts the length of travel for the front trigger ... if the rear trigger is set.
With it missing, the mechanism will work just fine, but travel will be 'long'.
It is safe to try it, even if your parts haven't yet arrived.

With the hammer down, pull the rear trigger till it clicks and locks in the rear position.
Touch the front trigger gently, and pull. The set (rear) trigger will be released and fly up to smack the sear.
The sear will move to absorb the smack because it is not locked in the half cock notch.

When your new screw arrives, screw it inward to adjust for a shorter trigger travel.
'Purple' Loc Tite will keep that screw from wandering, but leave it easily adjustable.

Once you get to the point of actually dropping the hammer, you may find that it doesn't drop when you use the set trigger.
THAT would be when you would look at adjusting the 'other' screw. Just make sure it doesn't have a setscrew in the side, locking it in place.
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:12 pm

Thank you Montana , that is the most comprehensive explanation I have seen. Did not even think about looking for a manual at Taylors. Just left dentist office, not a root canal this time, praise be.when I get home I am going to try what you suggested. I have gotten the hammer to fall and I can push that front trigger in through the screw hole but trying to hold it and set rear at same time just not working. Will wait until I get the screw to actually know if that is all that's wrong. Will let you know I. A couple of days

Brent, I hope you have a good 10 days without electronic interference. I lived 67 years without and got along fine, then the little woman bought me an iPad and I was a little pissed because I would much rather have a new rifle or a bass pro, cabelas gift card. Seems that , once I learned how to use this thing, I am now a 71 year old junkie. Even have an iPhone. Can't leVe home without them. What a change!!!

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:24 pm

Screws came today. I got the Taylors manual you sent and followed instructions exactly. The screw between the triggers was what was missing. I put new one in and pulled rear trigger and started tightening screw to release rear trigger. Screw was extremely hard to turn but it finally released rear trigger. Instructions said to turn one more full turn. Screw was almost bottomed out but I started turning it and 1/4 turn screw head snapped off. Rear trigger has no movement, is rock solid. Something is wrong with this trigger. I just got it last week from cabelas in oregon( I live in South Carolina) and the price was way cheaper than any others. Has a $300 pedersoli soule sight on it. Somebody got rid of it because trigger is bad. Guess I will send it somewhere to be repaired. I think the Taylors company will repair it but I have gone as far with it as I can.
Thanks for your advice, I really thought I could fix it but I guess not.will just have to spend a little more. You know the saying " if it looks too good to be true............"

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montana_charlie
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by montana_charlie » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Rantheman wroteCOLONScrew was extremely hard to turn but it finally released rear trigger. Instructions said to turn one more full turn. Screw was almost bottomed out but I started turning it and 1/4 turn screw head snapped off.
That line in the instructions is poorly written.
It says, "When the trigger is released, turn the screw just one complete turn."

What it should say is, "Turn the screw out one complete turn."
Or, as recommended by Brent, "BAck the screw out 1/2 turn and you should be good to go."

I would imagine that having that screw bottomed out in the assembly is what has locked up the rear trigger.

The trigger set is probably salvageable, but you may be better off having a gunsmith doing the work.
Retired...twice. Now, just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:25 pm

I spoke with the gunsmith at Taylors , super nice guy, and he told me a couple of things to try, said if they did not work to pack it up and send it to him and he would fix it. Well, did not work, so I packed it up and sent it. You just can not ask for better customer service than that. It was delivered yesterday, soon as I hear from him, will post here. Got a feeling it is going to turn out good. I think previous owner may have messed it up and just dumped it instead of fixing it

Rantheman
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Re: Tuning double set triggers

Post by Rantheman » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:50 pm

Hey guys, I am happy as a clam. Sent the rifle to Taylors and they repaired it and when I got it back last week, the double set triggers worked exactly like they were supposed to. Get this, only charged me $20. Hell, shipping was more than that. I am ecstatic ! Well, me being a neophyte on sharps, when I got it back, I promptly broke firing pin because I did not research and find that half cock should be used before working action. Started looking for firing pin and after five different places, all out of stock, I got one from Dixie gun works. Got it 3 days ago and it did not fit. 001 too big. Broke out the Dremel and , lo and behold, got it installed. Took it to range today and damn if I did not get a 1" group at 100 with shots 10 thru 12. First 9 were sighting in vernier. Mosquitos were horrendous and club members were hunting so had to quit. Can not wait to try 500. Thanks for all advice.

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